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Most Russians Believe Ukraine Shot Down Flight MH17

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A poll released by the independent Russian pollster Levada found that a large number of Russians believe that Ukraine shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, with 46 per cent saying they think it was brought down by a Ukrainian army anti-aircraft missile and 36 per cent saying a Ukrainian military plane shot it down (multiple answers were allowed, meaning the percentages do not add up to 100 and people may have chosen more than one answer). (www.smh.com.au) Ещё...

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Bigvernicus
Vernon Smith 1
One possible thought is the Malaysia Plane underside is painted grey, along with the engines, could be confused with a military plane from below, not that we will ever know.
preacher1
preacher1 1
That high it was tracked on radar, so color shouldn't have mattered.
yr2012
matt jensen 1
An SU-25 was in the same airspace and quite possibly the ground crew thought they were shooting at the Ukraine fighter.
preacher1
preacher1 1
I think that the world is pretty well convinced that a missile brought it down and none of he warring factions have denied it, so who cares? The concern and all the searching ought to be about finding the bodies and getting them out of there. Let the ones that live and fight in the territory worry about the wreckage.

[This poster has been suspended.]

preacher1
preacher1 1
I'm sure if they were uncaring enough to shoot it down, a little looting is not going to affect their conscience. Fact is, their are still 80+ bodies scattered across the scene and for the sake of everyone, they need to be out of there, with all dignity possible. Unfortunately, there are probably some that will never be found but those that are there need to be removed.
yr2012
matt jensen 1
Three jets in the same airspace - Putin, Indian pm and MH17. Enter a Ukrainian SU-25 to take out the first one, but shoots down the MH. Russian sam takes out the SU. Makes sense to me.

[This poster has been suspended.]

preacher1
preacher1 2
Eric: Our sympathies and prayers for your loss. I think most are with you on who is responsible for this tragedy, either directly or indirectly. Other than just bad luck, I can't see any fault on MAS. Jury is still out on MH370 but for whatever reason, it is missing as well.
mdholmes
mark holmes -6
This link is something that should be relevant. Does this article show that the plane was strafed with 30cal guns as they say? Is there someone who can tell us?

///////////////////I've been asking some of these questions for awhile on your website....my posts are here, if you can't find them because they're hidden now on the FlightAware site:

http://flightaware.com/user/mdholmes /////



LOOK at the pictures of what has been identified as 30cal bullet holes at or near the cockpit area:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/german-pilot-speaks-out-shocking-analysis-of-the-shooting-down-of-malaysian-mh17/5394111



I would like to pose this question to Mr. Dan Baker,
http://flightaware.com/about/executives/baker
as a result of his interview with Bloomberg on the 18th of July, the day after the crash of MH17, here:


http://www.bloomberg.com/video/the-mh17-blame-game-bloomberg-west-07-18-BOPZ62VJQuCR~EOdJ82~lA.html




1. At about 8:25 into the interview, my transcription of your comments: "Stations....all around the World"

"HOWEVER WE ALSO OPERATE WHAT’S CALLED ADSV (OR ADSB) GROUND STATIONS, AND THESE ARE GROUND STATIONS THAT WE INSTALL ALL AROUND THE WORLD WITH ANTENNAS TO RECEIVE DATA DIRECTLY FROM AIRCRAFT."

2. At 8:39: "ACCURATE FLIGHT PATH", "NICE SMOOTH MAP"

"On our website you can see typically about three or four positions a minute (…UH…) that allows us to draw a really nice smooth map that shows an accurate flight track."....However, (WE UH) sometimes we have up to three or four positions (PER) second that is not available on the website."


3. At about 10:15: "other COMMERCIAL airlines" (emphasis on COMMERCIAL) and "....within 100....75 miles..."

"IN THE CASE OF THIS PARTICULAR FLIGHT THERE WERE OTHER COMMERCIAL AIRLINES THAT WERE…U UH, WITHIN A HUNDRED MILES AND I BELIEVE WITHIN 75 MILES, OF THAT PARTICULAR FLIGHT SO I THINK IN THIS CASE, UH, AH THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME DEVIATION THAT IS NORMAL AND THA-OTHER AIR-AIRCRAFT PERHAPS WERE DOING AS WELL, BUT THERE WERE OTHER AIRCRAFT IN THAT AREA, SO, AH UH, I-I DON'T KNOW THAT THIS IS NECESSARILY A CASE OF:…"...AH..AH..A MISTAKE WAS MADE AS FAR AS THE ROUTE INSOFAR AS, UH, THEY WERE.... INTENDING TO FLY ONE WAY TO AVOID IT AND THEY DIDN’T, UH CLEARLY THIS IS, UH, AH, MORE OF A CASE OF JUST THE WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME…AND…UH, I THINK IT’S LIKELY THAT ANY OTHER AIRCRAFT COULD HAVE BEEN A VICTIM OF THIS, UH, IF THEY WERE IN THE WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME AND I’M REFERRING TO OTHER CIVIL AIRLINER AIRCRAFT THAT WERE, UH, IN THE VICINITY.)...."

AGAIN....emphasis on CIVILIAN AIRLINERS.

////ATTN: For Background, if you're just checking in, should you have any trouble finding my previous posts on this subject don't be surprised, they have almost all been censured, "down voted" or hidden in plain sight on your website.

Good news is you can still find them here:

http://flightaware.com/user/mdholmes

/////////


7 31 2014 333pm central:


Mr. Baker,

1. In this interview, you said that "there were other COMMERCIAL airlines" within 75 or 100 miles of fl MH75, right?

2. Why did you emphasize the word "COMMERCIAL". Is that because you only wanted to talk about commercial flights or because you have NO DATA to show any MILITARY FLIGHTS?

3. To that point, directly, does your (Flight Aware's copius data, which you discussed at 8:39 or so): "3-4 positions per minute" (or even more) and FLIGHT AWARE ground stations you install all around the world, indicate that there were any MILITARY flights following MH17 or not?: On data for 7 17 2014:
a. You (FA) have data to DISPROVE that any Military Flights were following MH17? OR
b. You (FA have data to PROVE or indicate that Military Flights WERE following MH17? OR
c. You really have no idea because all the Blue Boxes that you have or had in place failed to provide any information regarding that question?

Flight Aware BLUE BOXES: http://flightaware.com/adsb/

Perhaps just as pressing is the question of how do you have any idea whether the plane MH17 flight took is something that you have ANY data, with which to arm yourself for this interview or any other interaction with "governments" and "investigators" who are asking you for data.

4. How do you explain the statement that there were flights within 75 or 100 miles of MH17, AND that the flights that MH17 took on the 17th varied little from other days and other airlines?


YEAH, WE’VE LOOKED AT IT AND WE SEE VERY SIMILAR FLIGHT PATHS. WE SEE VERY SLIGHT UH DIVERGENCES, <HERE AT 13:46 WE GET A PICTURE OF THE FLIGHT PATHS FROM A MAP> AND SOME OF THAT IS DUE TO AIRSPACE PARTICULARLY IN EUROPE... WHICH IS VERY COMPLICATED, UH AND THERES A LOT OF CHANGES IN IN HOW AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS WANT FLIGHTS TO BE ROUTED THROUGH EUROPE WHICH IS INCREDIBLY DENSE AIRSPACE, AND BECAUSE THIS FLIGHT ORIGINATED UH RELATIVELY NORTH UH WEST IN EUROPE, IT HAD TO FLY THROUGH A LOT OF EUROPEAN AIRSPACE WHICH MEANS THAT IT COULD UH UH SORT OF ENTER THE UKRAINIAN AREA AT ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENT POINTS AND THAT WAS REALLY THE BIGGEST IMPACT THAT WE SAW, UH WAS THAT WHAT POINT IT ENTERED UKRAINE AND THEN WHEN WE SAW UH PRETTY SIMILAR OVERFLIGHTS DAY AFTER DAY UH, NOT JUST WITH MALAYSIAN AIRLINES BUT WITH OTHER CARRIERS AS WELL. (14:21)

5. The reason for the question on #4 is because many of us are confused about how you can on the 17th or 18th, tell the Bloomberg reporter that you have all this accurate data, and then, after CHANGING the info ration on your site relative to all the flights you were following for MH17, you admitted that you have NO DATA about where the flights were at any point close to the crash site?

6. How can you discuss:
a. Flights within 75 or 100 miles of MH17
b. CIVILIAN aircraft "in the vicinity"
c. "very slight divergences" of the flights in question

7/ IF is it true that a "WHITE LINE" on the "improved FA maps" indicates ; "...a lack of data and you can't draw ANY CONCLUSIONS from it...." (emphasis mine.)????

8. How can you tell anything about previous flights or the actual track they took or in fact who was or wasn't following the flight MH17 on the 17th of July, IF YOU HAVE NO DATA AND CAN DRAW NO CONCLUSIONS??

9 Just in case anybody isn't clear on what I'm talking about here, I will put a link to the article that you guys issued in "response to the many requests" for information about map tracking and "map behavior" here:

"Of course, it's still important to understand that the white line reflects a lack of data and you can't draw any conclusions from it, since it may suggest that, for example, a flight flew through a country that it really deviated around. We are constantly working to improve our coverage and more data sources are added almost daily."

http://flightaware.com/news/article/Improvements-to-FlightAware-Maps--Understanding-Map-Behavior/196


10. Finally, It is true, that before Monday, 7 21 2014, you guys only had GREEN tracks on the website, which meant that you knew (relatively) what and where a flight is going, and that on THAT day, for the First Time....Flight Aware started using these Gray or WHITE LINES on the flight tracks to indicate ESTIMATES AND LACK OF DATA??

For an example of this, here is a current map showing the flight for MH!7 on the 14th, after it was altered:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140712/1000Z/EHAM/WMKK
and here, two of MANY articles that show the actual tracks from your site BEFORE FLIGHT AWARE CHANGED THEM:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-flight-path-of-mh17-was-changed-july-17-plane-route-was-over-the-ukraine-warzone/5392182



BTW, Maybe you could make public all the data from at least these two stations: They might have much to tell about all these questions.


Anapa and Balice (Krakow)

Денис Костромин Maybe #1 site to check… due south of disaster zone, and right between the seas
Added: 05-May-2014
ADS-B Receiver
Anapa

Slawek Novak
Added: 03-Jul-2014
ADS-B Receiver
Balice



THANKS for all your time, and taking time to respond. Please let me know and I'll post any answers you send.

MH

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