Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 Shot Down Over Ukraine

On July 3, 1988 the USS Vincennes launched a missile that brought down Iran Air flight 655. This could be something similar, or it could be a deliberate act of provocation. I don't think it likely that somebody inadvertently tripped and and fell on a launch buttons. My thoughts and sympathy goes out to the families of the souls aboard.

55 planes flew the same route (SIN was 16 miles behind this MH) and 300 were scheduled on that route that day. With a 20 mile range those missiles could have taken out any aircraft at cruise altitude.

It's terrible that there is not an INTERNATIONAL LAW that prohibits ALL planes from flying over certain airspace. It SHOULD NOT be left to individual airlines to make this decision!!!!!

I feel so sorry for those people who are dead, not because of an accident, but because of stupid nations at odds with each other and without any consideration for other people. My sympathy to all of those families who have lost loved ones, particularly to those in my home country Australia. So very sad. And poor Malaysian Airlines, what have they done other than what they are supposed to. They are a good airline, so do not avoid them - not their fault...

Terrible incident....my prayers to the family and the lost souls...

GOD bless all those people. wow - speechless

This is turning into Malaysia Airlines' annus horriblis.

Here's why it got shot down...http://prntscr.com/43mrpe

I fear the Black Boxes will tell us too little too late. If a missile brought the aircraft down, it was one of two types. A proximity fuse or contact fuse. BUK can have either as they have a myriad of variants for land or naval use. It's as up to date as anything in the West and they even have export models.

The proximity fuse AKA radar homing missile emits shrapnel and literally shards the target. The 2nd type the contact or up your tailpipe follows a heat signature. Both get directed in the general direction at launch and are then guided to the vicinity of the target.

The RUSSIAN BUK system, suspected but not proved yet has been around since the late eighties has potential, combat read in 5 minutes with a probability of 90–95% with aircraft kills to a height and distance of 72,000 feet from launch. The BUK has a warhead capable of 154 pounds of explosive which is in the naval version. One BUK unit division size could of taken out the entire Ukraine Navy.

The Black Box (orange in reality) that monitors the engine and aircraft performance probably just came to a severe halt when the entire systems went down at once. Most, probably none of the sensors continued on.

The voice recorder will stand a one in a million chance only if the aircraft was warned of say receiving a message "you are violating airspace' and the pilot replied. Most likely not. It will simply end, they never knew what hit them.

Ironically the only thing the recorder could tell us perhaps if it wasn't a missile and a catastrophic explosion of some sort took place. I seriously doubt it.

The eastern separatists had declared a shoot down zone over the eastern end of Ukraine up to 31,000 feet vertical. MH 17 was at 33,000. Answer will come from those nice new satellites we launched last month from Florida, the ones the TV didn't show.....

The real clues will come from metal analysis, direction of structure change (blow in or blowout) residual markers or residue from the missile components, the shards. Good old metal spectroanalysis... It's just like a CIS investigation if the separatists allow folks to do their job and most likely they will get in the way since they have claimed eastern Ukraine as a new country......in their minds....

Martha why doesn't Putin the Savior simply blow Israel off the face of the Earth in the name of World Peace? Or better yet give the Crimea to the Palestinians as a home land? The one thing democracy does is show a leader that the people are not always with him. In our country, (not yours), we have been in legislative gridlock for years because our voters are divided on national and world policies, our people decide what does or does not happen, in your country Putin decides and those who are vocal about disagreeing die.

How sad, and on the 18th anniversary of TWA-800.

It would appear to be this flight

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140717/1000Z/EHAM/WMKK

This area was not part of a no fly zone

The man sometimes exceeds the facts of their own mind. A great hug to all the people who have lost their dear in terrible and cowardly incident.

more innocents paying for somebodyelse´s mistakes!!! the international comunity should punish the responsibles with military actions AT ONCE !!!! not sleep over it!!! as usual.

I found this NOTAM of interest.

URRR ROSTOV NA DONU A2681/14 NOTAMN
Q) URRV/QFALT/IV/NBO/AE/000/999/4716N03949E005
A) URRR B) 1407170000 C) 1408312359 EST
E) DUE TO COMBAT ACTIONS ON THE TERRITORY OF THE UKRAINE NEAR THE
STATE BORDER WITH THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION AND THE FACTS OF FIRING
FROM THE TERRITORY OF THE UKRAINE TOWARDS THE TERRITORY OF RUSSIAN
FEDERATION, TO ENSURE INTL FLT SAFETY DEP FM/ARR TO ROSTOV-NA-DONU
AD TO/FM MOSCOW FIR CARRIED OUT ALONG ATS RTE:
G128 KONSTANTINOVSK NDB (KA) - MOROZOVSK VOR/DME (MOR) AND
R11 MOROZOVSK VOR/DME (MOR) - BUTRI ON ASSIGNED FL.
DEP FM ROSTOV-NA-DONU AD TO DNEPROPETROVSK FIR CARRIED OUT ALONG
ATS RTE A102 KONSTANTINOVSK NDB (KA) - NALEM ON FL340 AND ABOVE.
ARR TO ROSTOV-NA-DONU AD FM DNEPROPETROVSK FIR CARRIED OUT ALONG
ATS RTE A712 TAMAK - SAMBEK NDB (SB) THEN DCT KONSTANTINOVSK NDB
(KA) ON FL330 AND ABOVE.

My prayers and thoughts go out to all aboard the flight, their families and country of residence.

How odd it is that the plane started flying 7/17/1997, went down 7/17/14, 17 years, and the flight number is MH17... RIP everyone.

There is recorded audio of russsian separatists admiting they meant to shoot it down but they didnt know what it was.

9M-MRD

Horrible horrible event for all the people concerned and their families. Even more horrific because of the
fact that it is the second Malaysian Airlines plane to have met with such a tragic end in the space of only four months. My heart goes out to them all.

No matter who's spin is put on this tragedy, and there will be several as we all know, the fault simply lies with the people who 1) fired the missile, and 2) the folks who provided the missile that got fired. It's absolutely horrible that the world is again fighting over who killed a planeload of innocent men, women, and children.

Why a NO FLY ZONE was used by Malaysian Airlines?
- Despite the flight been in a very high ceiling corridor
- Despite the fact that was definnatly a collective murder;
- Despite all European warnings issued by the European Aerial Agency since April for this particular conflict area.

Remember also that, there are several conflict zones with the same warning issued:
a) Syria (all space),
b) Israel (gaza border),
c) Ukraine/Russia border

WHY?

Martha, in the mid 1930's we sat by idly and watched a mentally unstable leader gain power, and ended up in a very bloody World War 2 that cost millions of lives, either through Hitler's hand directly, or the hands of those trying to remove him. Nonetheless, we learned our lesson, and are not allowing history to repeat itself. I think you have been watching too much "Scandel" to think the US directly had a hand in downing this plane. This is not a forum for religious debate. No matter what happened, the focus now is on the tragedy of nearly 300 souls lost unnecessarily. Whatever god each person on that place chose to believe in, I hope they are safe with him now.

Regarding the previous message "U.S. intelligence sources".
The legal system of the air incident investigation based on territorial grounds.
The crash of B777-200 occurred at an altitude of
alleged ~30000 feet in the territory, where the government of Ukraine has been conducting constant military operations against citizens of Ukraine from March 2014.
1. The status of these military operations is not classified according to legal system of Ukraine.
2. This "military zone" had not been reported as "closed zone" for civil air traffic authorities.
In April 2014 Eurocontrol failed to advise to close the flights over Ukraine due to military operations in the territory of Ukraine for other European civil authorities.
So presently, as I see, Eurocontrol is responsible for loss of 295 lives of MH17 AMS-KUL due to failure to react on military actions of the government of Ukraine inside Ukraine.
Civil aviation is not politics and is not a game with lives.

This will be an intentional inadvertent act. They meant to shoot the aircraft down, they just didn't know what they were shooting down. Whomever finally admits it is just the biggest loser of the waring parties. The other side, who would have shot it down also, is secretly relieved while they show no mercy to the guilty side. Meanwhile, why the hell was Malaysia airlines even close to the area to play a part in this fiasco? Every other airline is circumnavigating the area.

However it came down, I would at least hope that Malaysian Airlines would have their act together and be much more quickly forthcoming on flight info than they were on MAS370.

Anne, hold on, my kids read this board; I don't appreciate your getto talk. Stuff it!

Chis, I apologize for the last text. The post went to the planet "Crypton" for some reason. We have to leave Martha alone. She already has been "ripped a new one" by many posters. We may disagree but again, it's a forum and there are alot of opinions out there. There are alot of people that thinks that their opinion is the right opinion.

What was the Flight Management thinking when they put that Flight Plan together? The warnings were out there and they ignored the warnings. The flights prior to MH 17 took a much different vector.
1) AMS to KUL is 6363 miles.
2) AMS to DME (Moscow) to KUL is 6410 miles.
#2 is well beyond the distance needed to avoid eastern Ukraine. So the increased distance needed to avoid the area is less than the 47 miles between routes #1 @ #2 above. If this is validated as being correct, there is no "economic" reason to fly over a designated war zone. Doesn't matter what altitude you are at. Airlines always look for the most fuel efficient "flight plan" to get from point "A" to point "B".
Maylaysia Dispatch should have avoided that area altogether. It's just common sense. They were "trigger happy"...not really sophisticated but armed with sophisticated weapons. The "Buk". A Russian missile that is 16ft long, weighs 1500lbs, has a warhead that's 154lbs and has the lightening speed of 2684 mph. Three times the speed of sound. The Flight path/plan should have avoided this area at all costs. But they didn't and 295 souls lost their lives when it could have been prevented with a simple and more logical "Flight Plan". To the souls on MH17...God Speed.

Tass reports air traffic control over this region has been destroyed for weeks and control is to occur from Kiev. Not sure which "side" shot it down, although the separatists using a Buk seem most likely: but, was the plane flying over hazardous air space where it shouldn't have been?

How very sad, we're so lucky (Those of us who do) to live in a area of the world where there isn't constant military conflict. May they all rest in peace.

Well as we would have guessed the news media already have all the answe rsand are using scare tactic by approaching unsuspecting passengers like channel 7 did here in Perth Western Australia by shoving a microphone in there faces and asking them about there thoughts on the MH17 tradgedy.mmm what next?

Some background, so readers can make up their own minds. Airlines choose which countries they fly over, to get from departure to destination. No one but the individual airline decides this, unless the airspace is fully closed to all airlines, like the no fly zone over Iraq, up until a few years ago. Every country charges quite a hefty over fly fee. Can be US$10,000 , per country over flown. Different countries charge different rates. Airlines weigh up the price of fuel, vs. the overfly fee, and choose a route. Generally the price of fuel wins out, and the shortest track is the cheapest. Individual airlines can do their own security assessment and choose not to file a flight plan over countries they do not wish to fly over. Lastly, pilots would have no say in the matter. It is up to management.

We should de-weaponize aviation the same way we globally condemn the use of land mines and chemical weapons. Considering missiles from satellites are banned by global convention, why are weaponized aircraft (or ground-air weaponry) acceptable? Flying is one of the coolest things we've ever figured out how to do. Shame its used this way, regardless of the political or nationalist motives.

I think most US airlines are passing that area to the north, to avoid Iran area.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIP-bJWzOHA&feature=youtu.be

Inocent souls r.i.p.

Why can't you grown up adults stop slamming and criticizing each other for the lack of knowledge in aviation. Why not sit back and reflect up what is happened and enjoy your life while you can. Am flying from Brisbane to Amsterdam on Tuesday and are going to fully enjoy the trip.

heartbreaking...and terrifying...

Would infrared satellite imagery be able to pin point where the missile was launched? With all the military activity in the region I would expect that several nations have sophisticated surveillance capabilities focused on the area.

ValuJet had to change their name to air tran following two major crashes , this will no doubt impact Malaysians bottom line , they may have to go the same route .

Really impressive and sad what happened to MH17, i hope at least true comes up soon. May all the victims rest in Peace.

UPDATE - U.S. now says separatists fired the missile that struck MH17

http://www.frequentbusinesstraveler.com/2014/07/key-facts-about-malaysia-airlines-flight-17/

If i had been given a few BUK missiles i would not be firing them at random aircraft 33,000 feet up. I think i would probably save them for Ukrainian jets...but that's just me. Twa 800 was definitely shot down by the US navy in 1996.

Speechless my heart is with the family. The perpetrators must be brought to justice.

Terrible noticia

couple of additional stats here, apparently a number of amcits and dutch cuts on this flight - regardless, GOD rest their souls - my prayers with them and their families
http://news.msn.com/world/ukraine-says-rebels-shoot-down-malaysian-airliner-295-dead

Pas besoin d'être un professionnel de l'aviation pour comprendre les dangers de survoler des pays en conflit lourdement armé... Incroyable d'en arriver là pour ouvrir les yeux des directions de compagnies aériennes et de gouvernement (la France conseille de ne pas survoler l'Ukraine... Il serait temps).
Et il n'y a pas que l'Ukraine...

someone is going to pay for this the international community should react in a strong fashion.
so sad for all the loss of live

The nasty exchanges in some of the comments show just how quickly political tensions can rise. The problem is, if you put a weapon of any kind into an idiots hand, you can have a bad outcome, whether it's a surf-to-air missile, an AK47, or a laser light directed at a pilots eyes. I'm not a "ban everything" person nor am I a fan of Big Brother. But we need to keep an eye on items that can cause great bodily harm. I live next to an airport. Would I kill a person using a laser light near the runway? No. Would I report them to the local police? Yes. Things get dicey when it's the local police or military causing the problem, but that's when we do need a Big Brother.

Lessons will be learned from this. Airlines will be much more careful about flying over area's with known military conflicts. Hopefully passengers will speak up if their flight takes them near areas of military conflicts. Nothing like Twitter to tell the world that your plane flew over the Gaza Strip. Can you say "company stock tanking"? With some airlines now allowing Internet access while in flight, imagine looking at FlightAware while you're in the air. You'll know when you're flying in a bad area.

I read that a route around the area would have burned $1500 more of fuel. In hindsight, a bargain. Still, an open airway is an open airway. I also read that some idiot on the ground thought he was shooting down a military flight. Bad business giving idiots this kind of hardware. Also read that Iran is supplying the Gaza idiots with their missiles...

And so it goes...

Have the authority got a rule that aircrafts should not be allowed to enter an area that under warfare? Aircrafts been shot down from several days ago but draw no attention, I think it's a quite serious bug.

Qantas assessed Ukraine as a security risk months ago. Some Dubai-London flights occasionally were routed over Ukraine, before then, but ceased at that time. Just because many airlines were also still using this route, is not a valid excuse. A number of planes have been shot down over the past month, at lower altitudes. How much of a red flag do these airlines need?

The black boxes will probably tell the tale, but who in their right mind would go into a war zone (and it is a war zone) to retrieve them? Let's hope Boeing decides not to endanger American lives at this time to research the crash. Hopefully Malaysian Airlines learned from their recent tragedy to handle this one better. I know the Ukraine owes Russia a lot of money, but these two countries need to rein in their thugs.

UPDATE: Ukraine is saying that separatist rebels are removing evidence from crash site - and that Russia is responsible for the downing of the flight by providing the missile

http://www.frequentbusinesstraveler.com/2014/07/ukraine-russia-responsible-for-downing-of-flight-17-rebels-removing-evidence/

IF it is placed at Putins doorstep, what will the rest of the "FREE" World decide to do about it.... NOTHING, just like the support the Israelis are getting against Hamas.

This was an act of mass murder and should be treated as such.Putin still lives with the Soviet mentality.
Deepest sympathy for those who have had their lives stolen and their suffering families and friends.

Well, hand it to the Malaysians to try and save money by going direct or close, rather than avoid a war zone, especially after a couple of military planes were shot down this week.. FAA put the prohibition on U.S. Flag carriers from flying it a couple of months ago. Nobody is claiming responsibility of shooting it down. That said, remember KAL 007. It took a bit for Russia to finally come clean over it and then only after radar and radio was able to point a finger.

Reports now say 295 are dead
See http://www.frequentbusinesstraveler.com/2014/07/ukraine-says-malaysia-passenger-plane-shot-down-over-donetsk-region-295-dead/

"Where oh where can the launcher be?.. On it's way to Russia or at the bottom of the sea". Each launcher has it's own footprint or radar signature. Our anti-ballistic system can pinpoint a launch of almost any size and certainly a myriad of satellites and bots have been watching that area very closely. There is evidence I'm convinced but being handled very delicately now.
It's the old throw the gun in the ocean after the shooting. The launcher is the key and the answer to all questions.
And when it's all over, the blood still lies on Putins hands... this time it won't wash away....

The Ukraine does not have the hardware capable of downing an aircraft 32,000 ft. This will ultimately fall back on Russia once investigators examine every inch of that debris. Sad event today......Sad

The link below speaks of these terrorists claiming they downed a AN-26 of the Ukrainian Air Force.

Could it be that Malaysia 17 was just in the wrong place at the wrong time?


http://en.censor.net.ua/photo_news/294234/russian_terrorist_strelok_claims_responsibility_for_downed_boeing_with_300_passengers_on_board_photo

Multiple Choice - Who's to blame for the shoot down?
A- Idiots who possess sophisticated missile system (Russian Separatists)
B- The lunatic that gave them the systems (Putin)
C- The air controller that suggested/approved/allowed the plane to fly over disputed territory
D- The pilot (responsible for the safety of passengers and crew) that chose to fly over a war zone
E- all of the above

This is not good...
A great tragedy has taken place and already those suffering from cranial-rectal dyslexia have risen from the landfill with all kinds of assumptions, political and conspiratorial stupidity. I thought this site was about Aviation, obviously a few demented shirt sighted individuals use any forum they can drag their tails t0.

Let those who are in the know investigate, and find the answers. Let those who have lost someone hear words of praise and healing, not irresponsible political rhetoric. , MH17 from Amsterdam is a connection flight to Kuala Lumpur, a gateway to much of that area so there will be many citizens of many countries involved.

Those who see conspiracy as a way of their mindset will note today is close to the anniversary of TWA Flight 800 and that the plane was a 777 and it belonged to Malaysian Airlines.

According to the source the route of the Malaysian plane ran close to Ukrainian military transport IL-76, which was transporting relief goods to the blocked Ukrainian troops. A source in the Defense Ministry believes that the Russian defense gave an order on shooting down the Ukrainian aircraft but due to an error the missile hit a civilian airplane.


Source: http://en.censor.net.ua/n294232 Source: http://en.censor.net.ua/n294232

http://en.censor.net.ua/news/294232/passenger_boeing_777_down_by_terrorists_its_route_ran_near_ukrainian_il76_source

More news including plane was a 777 and Ukraine president is launching an immediate investigation. My thoughts and prayers with the families of these passengers.

http://www.frequentbusinesstraveler.com/2014/07/malaysia-passenger-jet-crashes-in-ukraine-295-dead/

This appears to be a casualty of Putin war mongering.The lessons to be learned are clear giving untrained personnel advanced weapons can have unintended repercussions and would result in the same sad outcomes in Syria too.Perhaps Putin did not realize that his own forces would confound his plans to rebuild the failed soviet state.

Expect Putin to distance himself from this conflict and encourage the rebels to sue for peace to save Putins face. The airline industry should really be more active in understanding conflict areas and avoid them even under immense commercial pressures experienced by airlines.

This is absolutely not acceptable. The days of Pan Am and Korean Air should be like long gone and in this day and age one cannot claim that they mistook the plane for a military cargo plane.

Sjoerd Balfoort STOP being negative, instead turn it around and explain why and what so we can all be educated. I have two sons that are pilots for airlines and they don't talk like that, they instead educated and give valid reasons why. There is enough negative out here can you help turn that around ? Thanks Mary

Loss of humanity！R.I.P

Atrocious!!! when will people wake up to Puttins destabilization, land and money grab in Europe to stop in his eyes "only" the EU grab???People vote to join the EU, Puttin uses military and bribes to force Russia on to people who are sadly mislead by a few who will profit when the deliver large chunks of Ukraine to Russia. Putin can only be described as a modern terrorist using money, arms to subjugate territory through other unscrupulous people.

Non è possibile ma chi sono questi pazzi, bisogna isolare questo paese non atterrare più per per un anno nei loro aeroporti!!

http://www.globalresearch.ca/german-pilot-speaks-out-shocking-analysis-of-the-shooting-down-of-malaysian-mh17/5394111

See above

Peace on Earth. Good will toward men. I'm sickened by what I see and worse, I believe my Nation played a role in all of it. The policies once written in stone need to be erased and rewritten. We are living in a new world and our policies have done little to keep up with the rapid change. We need change and not based on selfish greed. We need agreement instead of dead-locked divide in the USA to make this happen. We are falling apart in my view. The old way of thinking is making us a weaker nation.

@ Joel Wiley
Thank you Joel, for your good wishes.
I hope to get more proficient at this as time passes (before I do).
Take care...

Also heard a Russian cargo jet went down on Monday of this week

(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

MAS17 Down near Russian/Ukrainian border

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140717/1000Z/EHAM/WMKK/tracklog

I was looking at jhon Lewis's comments from a few days ago. Specifically at the screen shot of the parallel flights. When I looked closely at those flights one stood out. EVA88 was filed for a lower speed then the other flights. Could ATC have been trying to sort out the flights.

grim scene
http://newsbcpcol.stb.s-msn.com/amnews/i/c4/a31afb5e1ff3f66191208797c2eba0/_h353_w628_m6_otrue_lfalse.jpg

So, here we go. Russian Ministry of Defence had a briefing today. Main points (and questions to Ukraine Army & US officials):

1. There is a satellite photo with Ukrainian military site on it with a set of Ukrainian Buks before July, 17. Then a photo of the same site with 2 Buks absent on July, 17. Then a photo of a place ~15 kilometers from crash site controlled by Ukrainian Army with two Buks on morning of July, 17. The question is why they moved it.
2. On July, 15 there where 7 operational Buk's radars detected, then 8 radars, then 9 radars on July, 17. After crash, operational radar count declined to 2-3. The question is why Buks were operational since rebels do not have planes.
3. Ukrainian fighter jet was detected near the crash site by ATC in the moment of crash. It climbed up from altitude below 5000m (it cannot be detected below 5k with ATC radars) to unknown height and flew over the crash site for 4 minutes. The question is what it was doing there.
4. US satellite designed to detect missile launches was over crash site from 17:09(?) to 17:21. Question is why photos US has haven't been published yet.
5. Video posted online with Buk allegedly being transported from rebels to Russia was fake because it was different city on the video - not Krasnodon, but Krasnoarmeysk which is controlled by Ukrainian Army since May, 11. Again, why it's being transported, where is absent missile(s)?

If you're fine with *terrible* English translation, here is the video: http://www.vesti.ru/only_video.html?vid=610598.

Does anyone know if the missile has to be tampered with so that it doesn't hit a civilian aircraft as I have heard. The "safety" has to be disabled.

Totally Agee We keep believeing that every one thinks like us
Dictators don't care about popularity nor how much their people suffer
Russia was the most dangerous when it was the poorest Military strength
Is all Putin fears

All this rubbish I hear about bringing Putin to account for what has happened over the Ukraine,various Government heads wanting to pose sanctions against Russia, do we honestly think that Putin gives a rats ass about the West, he didn't when he was head of the KGB, why should he now, and it would not be any hardship for Putin, only another rod on the back of the Russian population, and there's more chance of a snowball staying frozen in a furnace than the people of the Confederate States of Russia doing anything to remove him.Who has jumped to the defence or assistance of Israel against Hamas who are quiet prepared to fire rockets from behind the human shields of the Civilians in Gaza, no they are a REAL BRAVE LOT.My heart goes out to the relatives of the dead of MH17, but I am afraid there will be little in the way of retribution against the perpetrators of the shooting down of the aircraft.

I'm a newbie on the site. Can anybody explain why there is no info for last hour of the flight in MH17 tracklog ? The penultimate point is 12:11 and the last point is 13:19. So there is a gap in more than 1 hour just before the crash.

I have seen disclaimer that in this region can be a gaps in information, but if you check other dates for the same flight - there is no one such gap in this region in the past. Does this fact look suspicious, no?

Acatei a resposta do Ole, com certeza. Sorry, I do not write good in English.

Que decir solamente terrible

I am sorry I am really young and don't understand this well enough, is this going to lead to war?

I wonder what or how much of safe air space/corridor is available to fly over ?
kindly check out the following , published in the context of shooting down the MH17 -

http://epaperbeta.timesofindia.com/Gallery.aspx?id=20_07_2014_022_005_007&type=P&artUrl=Russia-rebels-destroying-proof-at-crash-site-Kiev-20072014022005&eid=31808

The fate of MH 17 is a human tragedy. All are culpable. There are collateral fatalities. Nothing is
is to be excused. Nothing like this must happen again. Politics are culpable. Nationalism is at fault also. Innocents are killed at governmental whim, within and without territories. No one takes any blame. Even from the most atheistic point of view, we are supposed to be "Homo sapiens" I doubt it. Even less, homo rationalis. At present, this is a global issue.

Exactly Chis. Thank you for that.

Yes so true.i guess i like to remain focused and not deviate off course.no pun intended.after all part of my job as an emergency worker is to remain focused on the incident at hand.

God rest the souls and console the families of all onboard. It's pretty clear what happened. It's left to determine who did it. I agree with preacher in questioning why the plane was there.

Thanks Dee.ha ha.Western Australias got its own problems though.A certain missing aircraft.MH370 you might be familiar with.Everything has gone quiet here.Heard nothing on the news,nothing in the papers and nothing new from the authorities.????.Other than that,apparently Perth has the distinction for being the "safest" Westernised Capital city in the world.Probably the isolation helps.no conflicts or terrorist activity.

Chis- You are so right! Let's leave

Exactly right and thats my point and yes without the training,expertise and technology to identify the aircraft,for all they care they could have been firing at a flock of birds.and Martha please dont bring up the Palestinian conflict on this forum.Im sure theres other sites for that.If the Palestinians want to support a terorist organisation,they'll expect retribution.no bleeters please.

Chris- You're not looking at sophisticated...so called military people. But they have sophisticated weapons which they don't have a clue how to operate except to push a button. No Commercial airline should have had a flight plan over Ukraine airspace. I, personally , filing a flight plan would have avoided that area all together. It's just common sense.

Then regardless of who shot the plane down,lets track down the person or people who made this catastrophic decision.No one walks through a mine field without first checking to see if its safe.you dont test a guillitine by putting your own head in it.Yes some one pulled the trigger but who stood you in front ot the gun????

I did.

No one has asked a simple question.Why would anyone with common sense fly or allow any type of unarmed civilian aircraft to fly over a warzone?.
Answers please not speculation or theorising.

FA- We have a problem. Everyone is going ballistic! The forum is ready to explode! Help!!

Unless this is a false flag to try to draw in foreign military to help out with this civil war, it seems that it's not in anyone's benefit to shoot this plane down. Maybe these were just some trigger happy militants who thought they were shooting at a military transport plane.

Putin should be put on trial for criminal murder

sorry - auto spell is on - that is "dutch cits", not cuts

A sad day in Aviation.

If there wasn't any animosity between Malaysia and Russia or Ukraine, there will be now.

Video from crash point (viewer discretion is advised):
http://lifenews.ru/news/136823

That's four 777s in a row.

My sympathies to a all who lost family and friends. Many years ago (in the early 80s) I worked for the local handling agent of Condor in Colombo. One of the documents which we had to provide the Captain was "NOTAM". It provided information about war exercises and potential hazards along the flights planned route and the difference in altitude or deviations which he had to take. I hope this information is still available and given to all the Captains and flight planners. I wonder if all the information provided will be sufficient for the safety of any aircraft as the speed and range of the Buk missile seems to far greater than the speed and altitude of commercial aircrafts. I believe God is our safety and wisdom.

RIP passengers and crew of MH17

Does anyone know where I can find international no-fly zones? Trying to see what the area's restricted airspace looks like?

The interesting thing I see is that this particular flight traveled further North when crossing over the Ukraine border, compared to the previous 10 flights.

(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 shot down

More than four months after the mysterious crash of Flight MH370, another Malaysian flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur has been shot down over Ukraine.

http://www.aviationanalysis.net/2014/07/malaysian-airlines-mh17-flight-shot-down.html?m=0

dios bendigas a cada ser de ese vuelo , loe errores humanos que a veces se comete no tiene perdon de dios

God bless to everyone on board, especially the West Australians, my home state. RIP

http://avherald.com/h?article=47770f9d&opt=0

That will havevto do the religion with this horrendous accident ??

What a tragedy for the families and loved ones of all the passengers and crew. They are not alone in their grief and pain. We have all lost members of our family in this disaster. Rest and peace to those who have perished; love and prayerful support to those who remain. God have mercy on us all.

This mass murder can never be justified!!!!!!!

Heartbreaking.....

And a Ukraine army carrier flying out of Ukraine to where?

As minhas condulensias as familia dos passageiros oremos pelas pessoas que morrerão sem. Ter culpa do que passa neste mundo

No more to say.Rest in peace

Why would an airline even fly over a conflict zone ?

This tragedy really troubles me. A few days earlier (14 July)I was thinking about a friends frequent trips to Lahore, Pakistan. I wondered about precisely what route is typically taken. My concerns were along the lines of what airports are along the route if a mechanical failure or some other event arises that would require a quick landing.

I was shocked to see not only PIA but many major carriers were taking a line directly over eastern Ukraine, a known hot zone. I knew there were air defense batteries in the area that are hot, meaning they've been actively targeting and firing at opposing force aircraft.

Why on earth are all these carriers flying here?? I could see a line of flights, 10 an hour or more when I checked on the 14th.

If it bothered me, it must have bothered the pilots actually flying the route. I understand the FAA informed US flag carriers to not take the route. But why would others not follow our lead? Was there company pressure due to financial concerns or was it a more like 'Stop worrying, it's not a big deal'? How vocal were pilots about the route? I'm certain they had misgivings. I thought this while watching the live tracking.

Es una verdadera pena que haya pasado esta desgracia! Es un ataque contra la humanidad. Basta de guerras y conflictos absurdos por Religiones y Politica! Basta

It is absolutely impossible that untrained person can activate SAM system, not saying actually downing the plane at 33Kft cruising 500knt. Moreover, each system have multiple levels of interlocks to avoid unsanctioned launch. It should be military guys, probably more than one, with proper training, who also have all keys and codes to commit this act.

Malaysian airlines should not be accused of anything... More than 400 planes flew nearby tha day... Good question: Is it normal that some untrained para military "troupes" can dispose over high tech SAM missiles?

sick world we live in , very sad .