Back to Squawk list
  • 53

Video: Delta Boeing 757 and a single-engine Cessna almost collide over Orlando

Размещено
 
ORLANDO, FLORIDA — A single-engine Cessna aircraft almost collided with a Delta Boeing 757 passenger jet over Orlando International Airport in an incident that the FAA is currently investigating. (www.airlinerwatch.com) Ещё...

Sort type: [Top] [Newest]


bbabis
bbabis 16
The 172 pilot did a great job of recognizing the problem and taking action to avoid the collision. I wonder what Delta's TCAS was saying or is it disabled in take-off and landing situations. A divided airport with two tower frequencies is a setup for this type of situation. Two times in GA jet aircraft I have been given an across the airport heading after departure from MCO. Both times I questioned the assigned heading and both times I was told it was correct. No conflicts but definitely on high alert.
bentwing60
bentwing60 11
TCAS 11 is suppressed on the ground and at very low altitudes to prohibit an RA that could lead to a CFIT result. Hats off to a GA guy with excellent SA that may or may not have prevented a midair collision, but certainly pointed out some of the holes in the ATC system! To include the new progressive hire controllers that went to Starbucks before the start date, not UNDAK or Embrey-Riddle ATC lab courses.

https://skybrary.aero/articles/tcas-ii-activation
sledogpilot
Duane Mader 19
You know you are going to get downvotes for that & yes it’s wrong to assume affirmative action had anything to do with this incident. But… yes, people who compete and prepare hard to be controllers are being passed over by those who check a box on the hiring checklist. If I’m downvoted so be it. Downvote reality. Safety should be color blind.
bentwing60
bentwing60 -5
DM, I didn't "assume affirmative action had anything to do with this incident", and started the whole ruckus with "This hiring debacle began under oblunder!". The fact remains that the hiring policy was enacted on his ever divisive watch and the dates don't lie.

If We worry about the votes here maybe We should worry more about the 2022 elections that could validate 81,000,000 votes for 'My Dad Joe'!

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

reax22
reax22 19
Scumhook
Scumhook 2
In this age, where stupidity appears to reign supreme, that comment shines out like a beacon of peak stupidity, warning mariners to steer clear.
RECOR10
RECOR10 3
Go to wonder at what point this guy jumps out of his own craft (like that sky dive plane guy). The white guilt has to be pushing him over the edge....I for one look forward to that day.
nasdisco
Chris B 11
Two tower controllers at one airport.... I'm willing to bet this scenario has happened before, but never been filmed.

Great work by GA on SA. Delta was probably operating eyes front.
Memo to all GA especially with pax. Cockpit silence until Pilot says otherwise.
bchandl13
Brian Chandler 3
There's more than 2 tower controllers at a lot of airports. There's probably more than 2 operating MCO at peak times.

I mean can you imagine running the KATL tower at 5pm by yourself lmao.
skylane777
John Nichols 1
pilotboobbear
pilotboobbear 6
They look to be about 18,000 feet below Class A airspace.
skylane777
John Nichols -1
bentwing60
bentwing60 2
Not an accurate point, nor even a cogent one per class A airspace! The "sterile cockpit rule" is precisely in effect in this situation and thread. Surface to 10,000 ft. AGL. comin' or goin'.

https://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/publications/directline/dl4_sterile.htm

phenomjetservices
Gary Clark 3
If both aircraft had each other in sight it’s see and avoid at that point… should it have happened? No…. Media hype? Absolutely
billarcudi
Bill Arc 4
That's a pretty big if. I believe that ATC has separation responsibilities until both pilots are notified and call traffic in sight. Then ATC says "maintain visual separation..." and it's see and avoid. From the audio, it doesn't sound like that happened.
markAbarnett
Mark Barnett 5
This happens often in GA and more at uncontrolled fields. But not while a pax is using a cellphone. The pilot did well. Better to have told the pax to pipe down when they got near controlled airspace. Ive only got 150 hours and had to avoid other pilots entering runways while on approach, or turning out of pattern after takeoff three times. Near MOA, you need to be on the tower frequency to be aware of aircraft without transponders. Its their sky.
A6SEA
Bill Butler 3
Did I not hear the 172 pilot say "Shut up" ! ??
bentwing60
bentwing60 2
Some food for thought MB. You are smack dab in the middle of the most likely to have a fatal accident per total flight time period. Per FAA and NTSB stats. I wouldn't take it lightly.

https://www.faa.gov/data_research/research/med_humanfacs/oamtechreports/2010s/media/201503.pdf

Not necessarily a critique on you, maybe just an FYI.
markAbarnett
Mark Barnett 1
Agree totally. I don’t solo except at home little airstrip. All my potential incidents had a CFR in RHS.
mutrock
Mark Kortum 5
Video in you plane, car, and everywhere else is a good idea.
RECOR10
RECOR10 -1
Never, never record something that you do not want the Chineese, the hackers or someone with a warrant to see....
Kilocharlie
Kilocharlie 8
Buried at the bottom of this short article it states that both pilots had the other aircraft in sight. If that was reported to ATC then it is the pilots responsibility to ensure separation. If the 737 was climbing into the 172 then the 172 was responsible for staying out of the way.
ewrcap
David Beattie 0
Correct but not sure they reported in sight to ATC. NO?
Kilocharlie
Kilocharlie 2
I didn't listen to the tapes but regardless both from a common sense standpoint ie watching a plane fly into your path not deviating or also from the FAA's perspective I would think that being responsible for avoidance is the PIC's job.
CombatGuido
Guy Rovella 3
Good piloting. Both parties get to talk about while they wash their shorts.
markmcadoo
Mark McAdoo 2
Gratifying to see GA jockey implement his on-point training to resolve a potential air emergency. Now, it's time to fix the two-tower situation which could clearly lead to a devastating aerial catastrophe.
alpineglobalprivate
Christian von Delius 1
172 be like: "We will not be a hood ornament today..."
pbibens
Patrick Bibens 1
Whatever…… You guys, had a heyday with this post….. 😂
educor56
Marcos Cornejo 1
Wow!!muy cerca. Felicitaciones a los pilotos, por sus maniobras
redcataviation
Sidney Smith 1
Rule #1: Make sure you show up at your own hearing.
overpar56
Steve Stein 1
Based on this forum always blaming everything on politics, has there never been a near-miss since aviation started? You might as well go back to Reagan and toss blame on him too.

Pretty sure this is my last post. As much as I like aviation, this political bickering is worse than Facebook.
ktnxpi
Rich Pelkowski -2
Good point regarding the change in Air Traffic Controller hiring policy. This policy change began around 2017 and continues today. Not a good thing,
djames225
djames225 6
The start of the new hire screw up was initiated back in Dec 2004, not 2017. Then in Dec 2013 the FAA made the actual changes to the hiring process...changes that were questioned, rightfully so, right away.

"The old requirements to become an air traffic controller required applicants to earn an FAA-accredited degree from a Collegiate Training Initiative (CTI) program through a two- or four-year university. Then, potential air traffic controllers were required to take a rigorous computer-based Air Traffic Selection and Training (AT-SAT) exam, an eight-hour test that included hands-on application problems, multi-tasking games and control scenarios that one could possibly encounter on the job. If the applicant received higher than an 85 score on the exam, he or she would be considered “well qualified” to become an air traffic controller and would be likely to be hired by the FAA. (A 100 is the highest possible score.) The FAA changed its hiring policies on Dec. 30, 2013. The new hiring practices allowed “off the street hires” where the only requirements to apply for a job as an air traffic controller are to be an English-speaking U.S. citizen with a high school diploma, and to pass the FAA’s new exam, the Biographical Questionnaire (BQ), which replaced the AT-SAT exam."
jhakunti
jhakunti 4
You are absolutely right about this. I remember the change because I went and tested. I didn't want to be an atc but tested anyway.

The fools will disregard the truth because it doesn't fit into their narrative to justify their shortcomings which has nothing to do with anyone other than themselves, diversity or not. Another truth they refuse to grasp.
jbsimms
James Simms 2
See Eva Air Flight 15 on 16 Dec 2016 when the SoCal Departure ATC did her best to send the Eva Air flight departing LAX directly into not only Mt Wilson, but also a LAX-departing Air Canada flight
ktnxpi
Rich Pelkowski -1
No you are incorrect. The signficant change occured during President Obama's administratiion. I attempted to avoid politics and emotional issues, but in 2017 or there abouts, a decision was made to focus on diversity as opposed to abiity or at least potential. Ask any student (e.g. Coomunity College od Beaver County, PA) how there education became worthless when the change occured. CCBC which had maintained a waiting list for their ATC school prior to the change, went from a wait in excess of two years, to barely able to attract students for the ATC courses.
djames225
djames225 6
No I am not incorrect. HTH can I be incorrect when the brief I copy pasted was from early 2014 right after the Dec 30 2013 flubber. Yes Obama was President then but it happened in De3c 2013 not 2017. Here is another excerpt from June 2014 about the policy change:

"June 3, 2014
Thousands of potential FAA air traffic control trainees, with College Initiative Training (CTI) degrees or previous military experience, have been told by the federal agency they are no longer eligible for job interviews. Instead, the FAA has decided to accept less qualified applicants, apparently to satisfy concerns that the agency needs a more diverse workforce."

It actually all started back in G.W. Bush's 2004 and steam rolled to the Dec 30 2013 idiotic decision.
jhakunti
jhakunti 0
Actually started with George W. Bush signing Executive Order 13180 on June 2002.
mutrock
Mark Kortum 0
Donald Trump was president for all of 2017, with the exception of 20 days in January. Maybe Obama started the policy but if it continued it crossed administrations in 2017.
ktnxpi
Rich Pelkowski 4
Mark: With regard to the inaccurate dates I have posted. I must have not had enough coffee this morning. I was attempting to be politically correct by not stating names, but yes it was the Obama administration (2009 - 2017) that implemented the revised hiring policy that favored diversity over ability, education and potential.
jhakunti
jhakunti -3
George W. Bush signed into law the change with Executive order 13180 in June 2002. But if you are a liar and use lies to justify why you aren't up to the level you wish then be my guest and keep recasting that mess. It shows your lack of integrity and your true nature of jealous hate derived aggression. Beut keep up so that everyone can see what I see about certain players.
bentwing60
bentwing60 -8
This hiring debacle began under oblunder!
paultrubits
paul trubits -2
ktnxpi
Rich Pelkowski 6
Not to confuse anyone with the facts, but the Reagan administration did nothing to change the hiring policy regarding Air Traffic Controllers. You may be recalling/confusing the Professional Air Traffic Controller Organization (PATCO) conducting an illegal strike against the United States on AUgust 3, 2001, and in response the Reagan administration, after providing a warning and allowing a three (3) days for Controllers to return to work warning fired approimately 14,000 Air Traffic Controllers.
onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 5
Reagan wasnt in office in 2001. The ATC strike and his presidency were in the 80's
djames225
djames225 2
ktnxpi
Rich Pelkowski 1
Sorry on this day (September 9, 2022) I was thinking 2001, due "9/11". You are correct, August 3, 1981 was the day PATCO struck against the United States,
jhakunti
jhakunti 0
George W. Bush actually with Executive Order 13180, June 2002. Google it.
Apassori
Al Passori 0
The exact same think happened to
Me out of Baltimore (BWI) departing runway 33 Right and advised to make a left climbing turn over 27 with commercial airlines taking off.

My neighbor flying right seat in my C-172 (check pilot with USAir) didn’t hear the departure clearance and totally freaked out when I told him it was SOP for me in my little C-172 on many occasions. The boys and girls flying the heavies have their heads in the cockpit and are oftentimes clueless.
phenomjetservices
Gary Clark 0
Have you ever flown a heavy? Based on your remarks I think NOT… better stick to your Cessna and uncontrolled airports.
clewis1234
Chris lewis 1
It takes a lot more skill flying in uncontrolled airports where no one is holding your hand and your survival is based on your ability to quickly analyze and act appropriately in difficult situations, and coordinat with multiple others with no central source of control.
gonzalobustos814
GONZALO BUSTOS 0
Esse aviao sim que muito grande EU estive olheando . E ya muito certo e legal
mimana
mimana 0
What is a Cessna doing on top pf ATL so low? The Delta B757 was doing the routine thing but the Cessna was not in the correct area.
21voyageur
Dan Chiasson 0
How quickly this site lets things slide into the ditch - ref noise on "affirmative action". Clearly there is little management / oversight of the site. IMHO, the site itself slid following the acquisition from one more or less focused on serious aviation enthusiasts and related matters to one as filled with political BS as anything else. Shame.
RECOR10
RECOR10 3
Sure, until in aviation there are qualifications OTHER than skills at the helm that come into play in the hiring process. We have already seen this in the US Military and some commercial carriers...using ANYTHING other than actual skill of flying a plane will cause more incidents like the one in the story (and, to that, we can include ATC in the picture as it was ATC who caused this). Beyond that, get over it...
21voyageur
Dan Chiasson 0
Beyond that , , , some relish wallowing in BS and noise, others not. I, sir, prefer the latter. You are welcome to do as you please.
RECOR10
RECOR10 3
We do. We hire the best, no matter their color or religion. I do (seriously) check political affiliation and it does hold weight. We do not want the enemy within. Plus, when you are going to the doctor, do you want the best doctor (surgeon) or do you want the best surgeon who fits into a certain keyhole?

I know that for me, I do not care what the person at the pointy end does outside of being one of the best pointy end people. But, as is typical with the "woke" you really have no point nor facts in the situation, emotions are enough for you. Now, who needs a hug?
LeanderWilliams
Leander Williams 0
I saw this earlier and I wondered in the 172 pilot was a commercial pilot for a regional, since the picture they posted showed him in a pilot's uniform. Either way, his quick reactions averted a possible disaster. I question whether each airline heard the ATC give the other aircraft the same heading. Delta's TCAS should have alerted it as soon as it lifted off.
AAjetjock
Brett Dugue -5
The heart of the MCO Class B airspace from the center of the airfield is from SURFACE UP TO 10,000 feet and extends out 5 miles! The initial controller should just do what I have heard numerous times while flying into DFW and DENY ENTRY TO VFR TRAFFIC! "CESSNA XXXX REMAIN CLEAR OF MCO CLASS B AIRSPACE!"
djames225
djames225 4
It appears you need glasses and a hearing aid as well. The Cessna had just departed MCO 36L
AAjetjock
Brett Dugue -5
LIKE I SAID...REMAIN CLEAR of CLASS B AIRSPACE!!!!
WhiteKnight77
WhiteKnight77 5
When a plane is taking off from an airport runway, it is most difficult to stay clear of such airspace when it is already in the middle of it on the ground.
jhakunti
jhakunti -3
Hiring debacle casted by George W. Bush. Executive Order 13180 June 2002.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

woodhead711
Jeffrey Woodhead 32
He was IFR cleared to depart on that heading. Controller dropped the ball. Maybe read before commenting.
jbsimms
James Simms 6
Yep, you can hear the small plane pilot say he was flying the heading given. I just wonder why he didn’t question the ATC after realizing where he was heading?
Sorak
Sorak 14
This was covered in the VAS Aviation video. MCO is a very busy field. The Delta flight was under the control of the other tower at MCO on a different frequency. This pilot was on 35L. There was a 737 on 35R taking off ahead of the 172(no factor
because it was runway heading). The Delta came from 33L on the other side of the terminal.

The "shutup" comment was directed to his passengers chatting on the intercom as he was trying to concentrate on aviating and navigating, once the danger was passed he then Communicated with the tower for where they wanted him. This proper order of operations is what saved lives.
djames225
djames225 4
Ummm...MCO doesnt have a 33L. I think you meant 35L
18L/36R, 18R/36L, 17R/35L and 17L/35R. Which begs the question...why roll a Cessna on a 12K" runway on the opposite side of the field with:
A: a 737 taking off parallel with it on 36R and
B: Heavy traffic departing the other side of the field on 35L.
Why wasn't the Cessna placed on the 9K' runway 35R? Unless 35R was under maintenance, the ball was dropped a few times.
Sorak
Sorak 4
Yep, sorry was 36L going by my fickle memory can't correct it now.
djames225
djames225 9
I am still hoping, 1 of these days, Flightaware adds an edit/delete button
jsteiner
Jeff Steiner 2
And while they're at it, makes it possible to click through a link without having to copy and paste!
djames225
djames225 3
Here's some glasses, and a hearing aid, so you can read the report and listen to the audio.
RECOR10
RECOR10 1
Are you making light of this person's disabilities? YOU, my friend, are....a....meanie!
djames225
djames225 2
Nope, just trying to be helpful as it appears they needs both.

Вход

Нет учетной записи? Зарегистрируйтесь сейчас (бесплатно) и получите доступ к конфигурируемым функциям, уведомлениям о статусе рейсов и другим возможностям!
Этот веб-сайт использует файлы cookie. Если вы будете просматривать или пользоваться этим сайтом, вы даете на это свое согласие.
Отменить
Вы знаете, что реклама помогает FlightAware в отслеживании рейсов?
Вы можете внести свой вклад в бесплатную работу FlightAware, разрешив показ рекламы на FlightAware.com. Мы следим за тем, чтобы наша реклама была полезна и не мешала работе с сайтом. Вы можете быстро включить рекламу на FlightAware или приобрести привилегированное членство.
Отменить