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Airline industry union leaders call for no-fly list for unruly passengers

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Airline worker advocates are encouraging the creation of government and private no-fly lists for unruly passengers amid an increase in violence against flight crew and staff. (thehill.com) Ещё...

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wiliki
Michael Patrick 14
Many people are calling for a tiered response: first offense a year on the ground etc. Flying is not a right so 1 strike and you're in your car for the rest of your life. I flew 130 segments a year for 16 years and my mantra was: get on, sit down, shut up, get off. On over 30 trips from US to Oz in the front, I told on FA that my goal was that they would never know I was on the plane for 14 hours because their job was hard enough.
yntzrm
Michael Yentzer 19
Airborne aircraft are like ships at Sea. The Air craft Captain is just like a Captain at sea, His words and commands are absolute. Attacking or refusing the direction of any crew member is not up for discussion and carry the weight of the Aircraft Captain. Attacking any crew member once away from the Gate is no different then attempting to mutiny against a ship at sea. The very least any person performing or verbally attacking a crew member is endangering the entire Aircraft and the crew and passengers, therefore charges involving endangerment should be automatic. As a upset paying passenger bit your tongue and when on the ground off the Aircraft file formal complains and take legal action through the courts. Make notes and record the issues in the air for later use. Don't Repeat Don't get verbal or physical anytime the Aircraft is away from the Gate and moving. Remember the Captain is the Final Say once the Aircraft is in motion
GreggHales
Gregg Hales 5
I agree. But why does everyone always wait for Government control? As an industry, why don’t the airlines and employees take the initiative? Get together, create your own lifetime no-fly rule and enforcement. If some foreign airline chooses not to enforce a lifetime no-fly ban on an individual moron, then that is their choice, and their staff will have to face the next outburst of said moron. Stop waiting for someone else to make decisions for you. It is your industry, and first and foremost, isn't your "mantra" to protect all who travel with you? The government of almost every country in the world was able to pass new laws in record time due to the pandemic, but when it comes to airtravel safety for passengers and crew, they all pussyfoot around? Makes no sense to me. I might add, this is not something that should be being considered and done now, this should have been in place, in law, and enforced, decades ago.
shoalwaters
Mike Webb 21
I do not understand why this has not already been done. Do the unruly pax have their own lobyists?
HarrisonV
Harry Venison 5
hughschneider
Hugh Schneider -2
KWSyler
Kevin Syler 6
I totally agree with Mr. Yentzer and Mr. Webb.
denverfireman
Robert Vallero 11
Hate to say but It’s time to put cameras in the cabin to document bad behavior. There’s already a gazillion cameras in the airport watching us, and pilots are monitored with CVRs now.

Maybe if unruly passengers and abusive FAs knew they were being recorded it would curb some of the problems. If nothing else there would be documentation for prosecution.
E1craZ4life
Edward Bardes 1
I've been thinking about the idea of Aircraft Surveillance Recorders for quite some time. In addition to a camera in the cockpit looking over the pilots' shoulders, there would also be cameras on the exterior looking at the external components of the aircraft (which the pilots could access to assess the condition of said components) and cameras looking up and down the cabin aisles and a webcam in front of each passenger.
watkinssusan
mary susan watkins 4
this is a very reasonable request..there is absolutley NO reason why people who hit or abuse airline workers,or cause complete chaos on an airplane or even before boarding should be allowed to fly on ANY carrier..it appears as though common decency,courtesy,and logic went out the window these last few years...
revjamesstog
Jimbo Llidgots 3
It 'seems' reasonable...until politics gets involved...and you get put on a NF list not because of your behavior, but for what you think or believe. Don't underestimate the woke crowd to utilize this as a way to make your flying life miserable. Enforce existing laws which address this currently.
tranderson2
Tommy Boy 0
The only people that are causing these disturbances are the idiots that refuse to follow directions, believe that rules don't apply to them, and take it as a personal insult when compliance is requested. In other words, people that don't believe that masks work, that don;t believe in science, and people that don't want to be vaccinated. They are free to believe what they want, and they are also free to drive or stay home. If you want to fly with normal people, you have to at least pretend for a few hours that you, too, are normal, JIMBO.
Snickerz
H S 0
JIMBO??? "normal people" Why insinuate that people who are "free to believe" but may not agree "that masks work, that don;t believe in science, and people that don't want to be vaccinated" aren't your idea of normal. I agree that if a ticket is purchased, you must follow the rules. I do not appreciate you artful attempt to infuse the idea that you are "normal" and they are not. Your argument would carry more weight by sticking to facts and leave conjecture out, tommy boy.
jdrpc
Joao Ponces 1
There were some case I know of Cabin Crew being drunk, behaving in abusive behaviour, making sexual passes at passengers, and even 1 case I can describe in detail of a Purser attacking a fellow cabin member, then the Captain who tried to intervene, there was blood all over the carpet that had to be replaced at cost (high, of course), while the passengers were watching horrified....
What would you do??????? You Mrs know everything!!!!
RobertCorder
Robert Corder 5
I agree. These people should not be able to fly on commercial airlines ever again. They are a menace to the crew and their fellow passengers.
ckhof
Charles K. Hof 4
It would appear this should be done. The world has become much more violent than the past. And the acceptability of violence can not be allowed. The crews and staff are there for the passengers safety.
aurodoc
aurodoc 2
I think you can enforce this but the law needs to be very specific about what unruly is to prevent abuse of no fly lists. Verbal abuse would be difficult to define but physical contact is easy. Touch a crew member or make a verbal threat to either harm a crew member, passenger, or damage to the aircraft to me would be grounds for being put on the list.
craiglgood
Craig Good 3
This would be the TSA's chance to do something useful for a change.
revjamesstog
Jimbo Llidgots 4
Yep, you all chime in and say, "Go ahead, put people on the NF list." But who gets to put them on and for which behaviors? Be very careful of what you wish, for this kind of power never goes undetected by a rogue government which slobbers for more power every day.
TheDogeof88
Chuck Lavazzi 7
Your should maybe read the article. The remedies being suggested are modest and limited.

For those of you taking the stand that nothing should be done because "authority can be abused," I would like to call your attention to the fact that what you have just done is make an argument for the abolition of all laws. The fact that laws against, say, murder can be (and have been) abused is hardly an argument for having no laws against murder.

The kind of violence under discussion is a personal choice on the part of the person committing it. If there's a good chance of punishment as a result, I would imagine that would factor into their decision to physically assault a fellow passenger or a crew member.
revjamesstog
Jimbo Llidgots 2
Well perhaps you should read the enlisted and engaged FARs which already cover this behavior. As PIC of a commercial or private operation I can expel any dolt who I deem a hazard to the flight operation. US Marshalls take it from there. The fact that courts slap wrists rather than pass due sentence is not a reason to enact more laws, but reveals the true culprit to be attorneys and judges who miss the mark on passing just sentences. More laws never solved a lack of engaging current ones.
dodger4
dodger4 3
You are going too far. Anything that is dangerous to people, F/As, flight crew or the plane classifies. You don't have to let your imagination run wild....just the facts, please. 1 warning unheeded, and they're gone.
rvan128
Rick VanSice 1
The only warning they should heed is the example set by a previous offender that is always televised on the news....social media also posts a lot of these. If you're going to play the game, you're going to pay the price for admission!!
Cleffer
Cleffer 1
That was my point earlier. It's a great idea, but just ripe for an abuse of power.
Cleffer
Cleffer 2
Sounds like a great idea as long as the authority isn't abused.
tscottbaker
Scott Baker 2
As long as what? Authority abused? Never happen.
a4mer49er
John Macaulay 1
I have zero respect or confidence in the airline industry which has whined way too long and hard about receiving taxpayer-funded government subsidies enabling them to irresponsibly spend more and ignore their own budget constraints. All that same while airlines waste our time & theirs complaining about their customers.

Sometimes a good ass-kicking is just what the doctor ordered for all these airline industry whiners who are so self-entitled to expect that they collectively deserve to be bailed out by the government; funded completely by taxpayers who are also their customers.

Despite the airlines' consistent fiscally irresponsible behavior to have others be saddled with the responsibility for their self-inflicted budget woes. No other form of public transportation (or any industry, for that matter), goes on & on about having to deal with unruly customers/passengers...those same passengers have purchased their airline fares as well as funded unwarranted airline industry subsidies.

Couple this with the debacle of the Boeing-FAA collusion and airline companies purchasing the MAX's for economic reasons rather than safety replete with the uncorrected fatal flaws in the 737 MAX (the MAX stands for maximum problems) and one feels like they need to shower after interacting with the airlines and their selfish ends.

My family and I NEVER climb on a commercial flight especially those flights which are served by a MAX 80 and anyone who does is playing right into the airline industry's hands, ignoring the blatant safety issues. I'd like to see representatives of the airline industry try to justify their dubious stance, complaining about unruly passengers while simultaneously whining for taxpayer0-funded subsidities.
jdrpc
Joao Ponces 1
And when the crew is abusive? What do you do? It has to go both ways! I have seen quite a few cases!!!!
GreggHales
Gregg Hales 1
Well strange as this may seem, I don't recall EVER having heard of flight crew becoming violent and assaulting passengers. Or do you mean because a flight attendant may tell you to put a mask on, do your seat belt up or raise the shade on the window, and you don't want to, that is abuse and that then justifies punching them in the face? But yes, I do see what you mean, and basically, same rules apply.
jdrpc
Joao Ponces 1
Please read bellow! I HAVE seen Cabin Crew being abusive, rude, etc!....
GreggHales
Gregg Hales 0
Joao, as I stated, same rules apply. Airline staff who behave like what you related below? Lifetime ban from air travel too. I don't see any of this as rocket science. You have basic rules for the protection and safety of staff, passengers and the plane. ANYONE who is that big of a moron to abuse the privilege of air travel, lifetime ban. Been on too many flights where a moron wants to make everyone else's trip a misery. As has been mentioned before, air travel is a privilege, not a right. Follow the rules or NEVER fly again. Simple. And the airlines should already be enforcing it, not the staff asking for something to be done about it.
Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 1
If they continue to act like children, do what Disney does…….lock them in until the ride is over. LOL
dodger4
dodger4 1
This is the best initiative EVER for dealing with these idiots. Drunk, pompous, self-entitled, class-conscious, imbeciles who think the world revolves around them. It is an International problem but worst in North America. It cannot come soon enough. Recent incidents in the industry demand that accelerated action be taken among ALL carriers. Maybe they can all unilaterally agree on something that is non-competitive.
rvan128
Rick VanSice 1
williamableman
William Ableman 1
markc9503
Mark Castleman 0
Put them on the no-fly list with other terrorists and make the list public so we know who to avoid.
a4mer49er
John Macaulay 1
have you ever seen a no-fly list? Before you make these kind of suggestions, perhaps you should check a no-fly list out otherwise, you're making statements you don't know dick about.
ADXbear
ADXbear 0
Yeap... good idea.. 1 year, then 5 for 2nd offence.. then life For 4th.. and should be industry wide..

These people must not be served any alcohol ever..
a4mer49er
John Macaulay 0
AllanFromm
Allan Fromm -1
I would never argue with this - BUT in my opinion the root cause is that airlines make travel an almost inhumane experience with increasingly uncomfortable seating that has very little "butt room" in relation to the traveler's bodies and almost non-existent leg room. So now the airlines want to have a no-fly list for people that complain about this inhumane situation.
Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 4
I get your seat width/pitch argument but that’s never going to change unless the FAA requires a quicker emergency egress time for seating capacity. Even then the manufacturer will just introduce more exits to comply & grandfather the rest. The real root of the problem is “bad” human behaviour mixed with or without booze! Maybe it’s time for all but the best behaved customers to put up a security bond in advance which the airline will happily cash if they are needed to use disciplinary action.
a4mer49er
John Macaulay 1
What say you about airline executives "bad behavior" which endangers passengers? (e.g., how many planes have crashed and passengers died from unruly passenger behavior? Answer=0 How many airline passengers have perished due to stupid decisions by airline industry executives, pilots and the like who have decided the safety issues of the MAX 80, for instance, are not as compelling as "unruly passengers".
EtienneDaniels
Etienne Daniels 0
Obese, overweight, advise lose weight :) I start to understand why there are more problems in the US with unruly passengers :) If you don't like the seats, change airlines or fly business (if possible)
losgarlands
Michael Garland 0
This issue can be ended in about a month by (a) Arrest and prosecution for all violatorss.. No more remove from aircraft and nothing else done (b) Fines imposed by the courts not FAA (c) Place individuals on no fly list for all commercial aircraft.
tscottbaker
Scott Baker -2

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