Back to Squawk list
  • 6

United Airlines Plans to Diversify its Pool of Pilots

Размещено
 
United Airlines says it will train 5,000 pilots this decade, including taking on applicants with no flying experience, and plans for half of them to be women or people of color. (www.aljazeera.com) Ещё...

Sort type: [Top] [Newest]


jgisseler
jgisseler 40
Hiring based on minority status does a disservice to the minority. Now when someone sees a minority doing the job, they will wonder "are they quailifed or just a head count?". The "woke" need to wake-up!
jwills8606
James Wills 63
Good plan. Hire people based on the color of their skin rather than the contents of their brains. What could possibly go wrong? Onward, Social Justice Warriors! Next, on to the NBA!
rickascott
rick SCOTT 17
Didn’t ATC try this a few years ago when Obama was king?
mayfare15
Frank May 28
The sound you hear is hundreds of class-action law firms clipping this article to put in their “now we wait” files for future use.
dv8r
Carl Hoppe 9
Not with our new “woke” supreme court.
davi20d
David Kasner 25
Continental was a good airline as was United but since they merged they've been horrible. The goal they stated for hiring new pilots is the icing on the cake. I'm done with United, good luck with their identity politics, I will not be a part of it. I'll fly with an airline that hires the best not the rest...
SkyAware123
SkyAware123 45
If there is ONE job where you want people based on SKILL it is a pilot.
This is about as stupid as it can be. Go woke , go broke (and crash)
esu589
Joseph Sede 21
The PROLIFERATION of RACISM.
ChrisRisley
Chris Risley 41
How does one finally beat the left idiotic arguments that to be other than a white male and be told that I will receive special treatment, always because I must need it? I stand with the women and men of all colors and backgrounds who fight against the leftist nonsense. Quality of character, skill and ability first and only.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

dv8r
Carl Hoppe 20
I want to be a Victoria Secret runway model....I’m male, over 65, hairy, balding with bowed legs...Kirby can you arrange that?
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 2
Hey I want that job too. Why can’t old fat guys be runway models? Equality man!
gomedoc
Jon Schwartz 19
is there any institution in this country that the left has not destroyed with their destructive notion of equality??? Justice is in the eye of the beholder. If justice is put above everything else, then there will have to be a war to among alternative meanings of justice.

The search for justice will destroy this world-Frank Knight
srobak
srobak 5
remember - it's not equality. It's equity. 2 completely different things.
gomedoc
Jon Schwartz 10
yes, equity is more cosmic than equality.....both are still rooted in the cancerous religion of Marxism....or as Orwell said, The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect
RexBentley
Rex Bentley 1
If we got the justice we all deserve, everybody would be dead.
DRotten
D Rotten 1
'Justice' is NOT 'in the eye of the beholder'! The line between Right and Wrong is VERY CLEAR. To FULLY understand these things, I would encourage ALL to watch the youtube vids of Mark Passio. Please start with his EARLIEST videos.
mikeenderle
Michael Enderle 38
That's straight up racism. I ran into this trying to get a firefighting job too. I work at something, putting lots of time and money into my education. Apply. Interview well. And the job is given to someone who applied on a whim because of the color of their skin or their sex. So now I have 150 hours and am working on an instrument rating. Would I stand a chance against a zero hour minority? Probably not. Policies like this create racists.
dv8r
Carl Hoppe 12
When you apply, be sure to choose whatever race is popular at that time, and wear a dress to the interview.
topgunnh
Peter McGrath 7
and keep referring to yourself as "it"!
stofer
Pat Barry 2
If you look at Southwest's website, their minimum hiring requirement is 2500 TT and a thousand of that in turbine equipment. I used to build time ferrying aircraft, brokering and buying aircraft, and I built a lot of time quickly. However the subtle elephant in the room is age ...... the airline wants to get at least 20 years out of a pilot so when you reach 35 you are pretty much done with a major.
You need to get your ATP so you need 1500 TT as a minimum. Hire on with Atlas, Polar, Caletta and build jet time, or fly corporate.
georgeschultenkamp
George Schultenkamp 18
And I always thought that selection criteria are best and able to perform the job.
Treating coloured people and women different by assigning them preferences is telling me that they are misogynistic racists ! What a load of hogwash !
srobak
srobak 18
hiring someone based upon their race is a federal crime AND a civil rights violation.

PERIOD.
srobak
srobak 11
Justthefacs
Justthefacs 33
The only way to stop this is to remove any reference to gender etc from applications. If you contact a company they should not be able to tell you the ethnicity nor gender of their employees. Do the job and so what if you are a little green man or woman. Oh, I get it. Can't get promised votes from those that perceive their inadequacies as due to something other than ability. "It is not me it is the system."
rartac
Robert Artac 5
Yup! they should interview us like a person in witness protection: obscured voice and in a confessional. Then the big reveal to see what they hired.
srobak
srobak 3
that's already been federal law for decades.
rartac
Robert Artac 6
Except EVERY EEOC application asks all the questions about gender and race which is by very definition sexist and rascist.
srobak
srobak 2
and they are optional to answer. supposed to only be used for statistical purposes by the eeoc.
eji74
eji74 0
There are many applications where there is an option to not disclose your race/ethnicity/gender.

Also, there are still a lot of instances where being Black = Automatic DQ. Thankfully it isn't nearly as widespread as it once was, but it still happens.
mutigers1987
Michael Cole 7
Give me a break. Please, tell us where this still happens. I’ll wait.
eji74
eji74 -1
I gave one in another post about a family who refused to allow a qualified painter with a reputable company paint their house because he was Black and they felt he wasn't qualified as a result. Yes, it absolutely does still happen.
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 2
This site is about people in the aircraft industry not people someone wants to hire to paint a house. Maybe try to stay on topic?
ekfd16c3
Carl Richter 36
United is now on my no fly list.
jmtflyer
jack slide 25
While we at it all those WHITE planes are very disturbing and racist!!!! %50 should be black and a few pink to be fair! This PC is BS!!!!
crazycatz20
crazycatz cooke 24
Honestly, why does that matter? You have an airline that is already diverse with colored people, and don't you already hire colored people when the apply? By saying that they are adding more, they a saying "we treat colored people differently when hiring them" which is kinda racist? I don't understand United...
kpatsan
Kosta Patsan 26
They're not being "kinda racist". They ARE being racist.
crazycatz20
crazycatz cooke 1
Or are they just saying they want more to be more "socially acceptable"?
jwills8606
James Wills 9
A minor quibble: socially acceptable only to an insipid group of socially unacceptables. Normal people know it's all bogus.
BuellH
Buell Hollister 24
Any chance illegal immigrants can apply?
mutigers1987
Michael Cole 8
hansman
Hans Zaepfel 11
Let's combat age-ism while we're at it. When I retire in 4 years at age 66, hopefully United will hire and train me for my twilight career in aviation.
tcavin
tcavin 21
So....United has publicly stated that hiring the best available pilots and flight safety are secondary to public virtue signals. NEVER FLY UNITED if you care about your safety.
topgunnh
Peter McGrath 6
Absolutely! Imagine putting your life in the hands of someone that got their job because it's now treated like a "participation award"!? I'll never fly United or its regionals again because you'll never know if the person flying you is qualified or just "the right fit"!
GerryShutrump
Gerry Shutrump 4
Let's hope the FAA CHDO is doing their job and tripling the surveillance on pilot training.
flshawkzak
Michael Tomascak 10
Not concerned, my soon to be social credit rating will only allow me to move about the planet by foot or bicycle.
redseaconsulting
Robert Mack 1
(Mine, too - can easily relate)
gomedoc
Jon Schwartz 10
Too often the result of affirmative action has been an artificial diversity that gives the appearance of parity between blacks and whites that has not yet been achieved in reality...Preferences tend to attack one form of discrimination with another...Affirmative action encourages a victim-focused identity, and sends the message that there is more power in our past suffering than in our present achievements.
Shelby Steele
jimsarushfan
Huck Finn 18
My solution? Don’t fly United. I won’t fly any airline that puts politics ahead of qualifications. Go woke, go broke!
utahcamera
Tim Smith 17
Who in their right mind would fly on an airline that puts diversity before qualification?

This political move will end up putting even more stress on the left seat.
mikeenderle
Michael Enderle 17
Also, that's so unfair to the minorities and women who worked their ass off to get where they are. Now people can look at them and assume they got there because of their special status and not their ability. So wrong.
prifly1
kirk price 16
I Will definitely NEVER fly united again
M20ExecDriver
M20ExecDriver 8
Speak with the guys who run the sims and they'll tell you when the SHTF who falls apart first.
BayneJust
Bayne Just 15
Affirmative action pilots? What can possibly go wrong.
n7777r
Derek Vaughn 15
Strange marketing ploy to help their competition. Strange indeed.
gomedoc
Jon Schwartz 11
“A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both. Milton Friedman
trbpearson
William Pearson 5
As if I needed ANOTHER reason to not fly United Airlines.
Greg77FA
Greg77FA 9
Someday, this wokeness, social BS will come around hard to bite them all. Corporations need to stay out of this political bs, run their business and have the backbone to do so.
ICMI
ICMI 9
I personally self-identify as a hippopotamus. What about me!!! This is exclusionary. Also, what about extremely obese people, can they be included too? I demand equality this is unfair.

Bested
ICMI

ATD DC-69 “giggity”, B575, B676
Flight Dude Teacher
Ground Impactor
Aircraft Dispatcho guy
A&W root beer float
Pushing tin
Federal pension collector
Certifiably an accident
U.N. Blackhawk helicopters!!!
Safety first
canuck44
canuck44 18
Merit is out but counting the color of noses and the chromosome array is in.If you are striving for excellence merit should always trump non-related divisions. Next the WOKE type will be demanding so many gays and a quota of transgenders, so many Spanish speakers etc. United is opening a can of worms...if they have a subpar female student of color does that individual get a job over an air force graduate.
Unfortunately we saw this in the FAA picking controllers.
mbrews
mbrews 9
The same virtue signalling Diversity bragging was emailed to United frequent flyers. Sent by Jessica Kimbrough UAL Chief Diversity Equity, and Inclusion Officer. Formerly a Chicago based employment lawyer. No mention at all about hiring qualified personnel ; just asserting an ideological preference to recriut by gender or skin color.
canuck44
canuck44 10
United ripped apart over this tonight on Tucker Carlon. Will be interesting to see United's reply.
comanche7wl
Andrew Kriner 14
Now we have a reason not to fly United. This diversity crap based on fear of reprisal has to stop‼️ All we see on advertising now is mixed races and everyone has to be included. No they don’t. If they have 15% Black that’s close for a skilled group that is responsible for your LIFE‼️
Airline executives feel they can take anyone and train them to fly. With today’s technology they feel the plane will do the job and a pilot just starts it and turns it on. We see what happens when technology fails ‼️ Just the idea that “Diversity “ is more important than SAFETY‼️ Not flying UNITED‼️
mayfare15
Frank May 4
briansfreeman
Brian Freeman 8
Hiring people based on their skin color is RACISM. Period.

Just because that skin color is not white doesn't make it not racism... United Airlines is racist.
Justthefacs
Justthefacs 8
Good news for Boeing and Airbus. There will be an increased need for replacement planes. This is ridiculous. I would think they would want the best regardless.
mikehutch
Michael Hutchinson 4
The only thing airplanes care about is proficiency so should our corporations. This insanely must end.
RogerGrady
Roger Grady 4
If this fool (the CEO) is serious, UA should also set the same hiring standard for its mechanics, ramp, reservation offices, ticket counter, and corporate offices. Wouldn't that make UA a better airline than it is today? I have to wonder why UA wants to violate the law, compromise passenger and crew safety, and continue with its descent into oblivion. If I was on the board, this guy would be looking for another job.
HORSLEY2945
JR Horsley 4
So has United been bought out by SWIFT Trucking? This sounds like their business plan, just stick anyone in a truck and turn them loose.
gomedoc
Jon Schwartz 4
As of 1940, 87% of black households were in poverty. Over the next 20 years, that declined to 47%. This was all prior to the civil rights laws and prior to the social welfare policies of the Johnson administration. Over the next 20 years it fell an additional 18 points. That was just the same trend continuing but at a reduced rate. Affirmative action is even worse. The poverty rate was something like 30% among black households before affirmative action. A decade after affirmative-action it was 29%. This is not the same as the 40% decline that occurred before there were any civil rights laws and before there was any social  welfare state. -Thomas Sowell
mark7dailey
mark dailey 4
At United you will be judged by your genitalia and the color of your skin not the content of your ability.
scott8733
scott8733 10
....Cue Elaine Dickinson asking over the PA,

"By the way- is there anyone onboard who knows how to fly a plane?"
MSUSparty
MSU Sparty 7
Reverse Discrimination at the worst and dangerous and self serving at the least. NEVER see me on a United plane again. They should change their name to un-United
dzjunky77
Preston Daniel 7
Politics over safety! Go figure......illegals should have the right to apply! United has been on my no fly list a long with a few others.
topgunnh
Peter McGrath 3
Good point! The left will have them recruiting from the Middle East just so they don't "offend" anyone! We've seen pilots from the Middle East fly before! REMEMBER????
linbb
linbb 14
Oh wow this is so great here we go again not by ablity but by race. This crap is getting old there are pilots of color and have been for years. Same for gender and any time this has been applied it has not worked. Been there seen it happen had to suffer because of it for raises and employment.
edman610
ed lang 14
agreed! But these days, hiring a person because they are black is ok, or hiring someone because they are female, regardless of their ability. Imagine if the statement said UA was hiring pilots because they were white and male? The outcry, calls for boycott, state governors clamoring for landing rights to be suspended.... it's a shame that all the progress made over the last years will be wiped out by misguided actions such as this one
SkyAware123
SkyAware123 10
Minorities saw the biggest improvement overall under Trump. The opposite will happen under creepy joe
florabrands
Flora Brands 6
Guess I eont be flying United anymore!!
dwkeating
Donald Keating 6
Another example of the kind of thinking and actions where the major qualifier for a skilled workforce is the melatonin level of the skin, ethnic background or gender the applicant "identifies with". Opportunities yes, but United's guiding principal should be "we hire the best, regardless of race, gender, ethnicity or religion". What we are witnessing is the agonizingly slow death of what was once a great Republic. History will not look with favor upon its last years. I will avoid United unless there is no other way. Thank God I can drive to most of the places I need to go.
umpetcetc
David Turner -1
I think you mean “melanin,” skin pigmentation, not “melatonin,” a sleep aid.

And I think you mean “principle,” a tenet, not “principal,” the guy who runs the school.

Why is it so dang hard to find racism and intelligence together in one person? Oh wait, I just answered my own question.
gilgraham
gil graham 6
Sad Sad Sad. I want the best in the cockpit PERIOD! To be fair though, I sometimes wonder if the old white dude in the cockpit is there because of his color and gender and maybe isn't the best either. As long as we use "identity" as a guide, we'll never end racism. Let's get real.
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 3
If this stupidity had been applied in the nineties Colgan 3407 would have happened ten years sooner. It was bad then given the lax standards on professionalism and performance. This will only make it worse.
msetera
Michael Setera 3
Are they going to change their company name to 'Divided Airlines' then?
firediver86
firediver86 3
RainbowRiver
RainbowRiver 3
UAL management is nothing but a bunch of PC idiots. This conversation began back in the early 1980's and was settled long ago. No matter what the color of their skin, if an applicant passes the requisite tests and training - welcome aboard. If they can't, then we're sorry but you'll have to find a different career field.

If the CEO of United had a brain tumor, would he allow a brain surgeon to operate on him who had flunked out of neurosurgery? Why not, if its OK for his passengers?
mjs126
Mike Spirito 5
Another Woke company - beyond stupid. I have no problem with hiring no time pilots and then training them - this is going to be the way of the future, anyway. But to do that based on race, sex or ethnicity is the very definition of racism.
stofer
Pat Barry 5
I strongly disagree. These zero time new hires will be simulator trained on the aircraft for which they will be assigned, and will get a type rating in the simulator. They will have understanding of the automation of the aircraft, but will have no "stick and rudder skills", an item which has always differentiated Western pilots from those in Asia and Eastern Europe.
Typically, pilots in North America have gained a minimum of 2500 hours flying all types of aircraft before they have been hired. Minimum flight experience by FAA rules is 1500 hours. Now United is going the other way, which is deeply regrettable. United will get the new hires type rated and then will call them "2nd officers", meaning that they cannot take off or land the aircraft but can sit right seat until they have gained sufficient flight time to become 1st officers.
To illustrate this - the debacle of the Boeing 737 Max led to two fatal crashes because the flight crew didn't know how to respond to the pitch up, and relied on the automation of the aircraft. Both American and Southwest had 737 Max in their fleet, and both reported similar incidents - the flight crew pulled the breaker for the autopilot and hand flew the plane. An equivalent simulator pilot will lack that gut knowledge.
Wait and see.....
mjs126
Mike Spirito 1
Pat, I don't disagree with your assessment, including the Max issue. Stick and rudder time is vital. I base my comments on the dwindling supply of pilots. With costs continuously increasing I think our numbers will continue to decrease. Where will the pilot pool come from?
mutigers1987
Michael Cole 2
Based on United Airlines, it sounds like maybe a job fair at an inner city community college.
M20ExecDriver
M20ExecDriver 4
No way on god's green earth will they meet that goal. Maybe 5% if they're lucky.
TxFlier
TxFlier 4
Maybe I misunderstood what they're doing. Won't all these recruits have to earn their multi, instrument, commercial and ATP ratings, which are administered by the FAA? And won't they have to pass their twice-yearly medical exams, administered by an FAA ME? IOW, United can recruit and train whoever they want, but until the FAA certificates them to the same standards as "non-diverse" pilots, they won't be in any cockpits. Maybe they do it differently now, but when I got my ratings, it was clearly a pass/fail system: either you were good enough to get the rating, or you weren't.
chiefaviator
darrin edwards 4
Just look at the Atlas crash. An unqualified pilot was continually passed through because of the color his skin.

United is now doing that, so instead of cargo and 3 people it will be a couple hundred that will perish.
SkyAware123
SkyAware123 7
Guess what will happen? They will lower the standards.the FAA
waynej007
waynej007 7
Just like they're doing in schools. .... math is a racist concept!
smitty4980
Donald Smith 2
This should make things a lot easier at the scene of the accident. Matching body parts by color should be much more efficient that waiting for DNA samples. Putting arms and legs with the wrong head and torso should become a thing of the past.
marston620
Marston Davis 2
More than happy to stay off of United at the present time. Now determined to NEVER fly on United. Stupid move...just stupid.
I have never cared a wit about gender or skin color. Can you do the job? Then that's how you hire. On merit alone! Gender and color...who cares? WHO CARES???
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 2
Isn’t this kinda insulting to minorities? It’s kinda like saying they couldn’t get a licence without making it easier for them. Personally I could care less about the pilot’s sex or skin colour or anything else because what I care about is the person at the controls is capable of handling the aircraft in any situation that may come up. Airlines need to make that the priority and hire people who are capable of meeting that criteria regardless of sex, skin colour or anything else.
Mike101361
Lloyd Sharp 2
Ya'know, United already tried this...I'm guessing 30 some odd years ago. They wanted to diversity their pilot pool, and hired a bunch of women, of color, and pushed them thru flight training. So here is this gal- (flying a 747 no less) flying out of San Fran.
They loose an engine on Takeoff-- OK, no sweat
They still have three good engines...except she shuts down one of the operating engines.
Now they have two non-operating engines.
They can not meet the minimum climb gradient, and also drifted off course, and damn near hit that great big tower in SFO.
How quickly we forget these valuable lessons.
The one thing I've learned in my years of Aviation, is NEVER put someone in the cockpit that hasn't had a desire to be there.
If your heart isn't in it...you're only going to do a half-assed job.
rickascott
rick SCOTT 1
And then there was the female hired in the late 80’s who claimed that she had never seen an NDB approach and required additional training so she could pass her check ride. Who got an instrument rating back then without an NDB approach on their ride? You are spot on, my friend!
strickerje
strickerje 1
Yikes, even I've done NDB approaches, and I got my IFR rating in 2007. I haven't flown in years but I think NDBs are gone now.
allenwilliams47
Allen Williams 2
I don't care if my pilot is multi colored poka doted. Most qualified is what I want. The people pushing this should only fly on flights that do not require qualifications.
hapdog777
Hap Wilson 2
HR NEEDS TO QUIT HIRING PILOTS. LET FLIGHT OPERATIONS DECIDE WHO'S QUALIFIED.
DRotten
D Rotten 2
Can't people follow along?? It started in the (cough) 'education' system. Hiring those who would push an Agenda (Order Followers) instead of EDUCATE. Then, it moved on to the (cough) 'Health Care' system. First, it was 'nurses aids' who were/are mainly so-called 'minorities'. They, in MOST cases, didn't even have a High School Diploma and then were given a 'few hours' of 'nurses aid training'. That same model then moved to Nurses. And then on to 'Doctors'; who, today, know NOTHING about HEALTH. All they know how to do is write Rx's. Kids today, in SKOOL (spelled on purpose) are now being passed 'just because'. And the smartest kid in the class is being brought down to the dumbest kids' level, as to 'not offend' (ie 'racism/inclusion, ect). NEXT will be Architects & Engineers. Do we REALLY want to go into that building, cross that bridge, get on a train/plane, ect......that was BUILT BY MORONS....'just because' they had the correct pigment in their skin or were female (more likely NON BINARY)??? ALL of those kids who got a TROPHY/MEDAL 'just for participating', that started 10-15 years ago, will now be building your bridges, high rises, homes, autos, ect!! (and designing your home electric appliances = your house being burned down!)
rjbson1
Jeff Bateman 2
Shouldn’t we just hire qualified people? I’ve spent a lifetime honing good skills to fly. Now the only skill I’m really supposed to have is the luck of not being born an average white guy.
Grommit12
Grommit12 2
Wow! NO flying experience? This is GREAT! I actually have flying experience. Lots of it. As a passenger (and a well-behaved passenger at that...I always put my seat back in the upright position). I can't wait until I get to sit in the captain's chair. "Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Our flight tonight will take us from Boston to Shannon in 6 hours. But, I know a shortcut that will get us there in less time. Now, fasten your seat belts, stow your tray tables (see...I already know that part...ooh, captain's bars)...and we'll be there in a jiffy."
Now, let me see, I think I push that button and...aggggggggghhhhhh...wrong button...oops...".
Baywooff
James Bruton 2
Oftentimes when organizations make quota goals and are not able to attain the numbers they need to meet them, these organizations consider and enact changes to attain what they publicly are trying to achieve. By compromising and "loosening" hiring standards, merit, and even safety to meet a quota, it spells big trouble for United and even more its customers.
gomedoc
Jon Schwartz 2
Four legs good, two legs bad
jimsarushfan
Huck Finn 3
Next on the list of Joebama’s projects are battery powered airplanes.
BDaleR
Byron Russell -1
https://flightaware.com/squawks/view/1/7_days/popular_new/83482/UPS_orders_electric_aircraft_to_transport_cargo_between_its_facilities
royhunte92
Roy Hunte 3
jptq63
jptq63 15
And what about those people who indicate they are neither a woman or a man...? More importantly, how are they going to VERIFY the selection?
DRotten
D Rotten 3
Not a problem! Then they will choose those who IDENTIFY as 'female'!! LOL So, not only will you have UNQUALIFIED flying planes, you'll also have those who are severely mentally ill!
eji74
eji74 2
If they are subject to the same standards as everyone else who has completed the program before them, I fail to see what the problem is here. The thing that worries me is that the old canard where if someone is a/an (insert occupation here) and is a POC or a woman, he or she must automatically be unqualified, will come up yet again. In my area of the country, there was an incident where a white family in a wealthy suburb refused to allow a Black person to paint her house, because they assumed he was unqualified, even though he was working for a reputable company. How is that even remotely acceptable?

I'm working my tail off to become an IT professional. I'm Black and approaching middle-age. Am I automatically unqualified as a result? I don't think so.
Rodstein
Marc Rodstein 4
You are not automatically unqualified because you are black, but neither is the guy who is white! Each should be hired based on his demonstrated abilities and based on nothing else! To choose people based on their race is what Martin Luther King spent his life protesting against.
eji74
eji74 3
You're right, but my support is based on being given the opportunity that other POC and women haven't had. If they complete the program, they should be held to the same standards in skill and knowledge. NO relaxing the standards, NO exceptions. I will not support anything less.
Viperguy46
Jesse Carroll 1
If they are qualified, great! If not, no worries the FAA should weed them out!
jenastreet
jena weber 1
Sad times people. Quotas over qualification.
EtienneDaniels
Etienne Daniels 1
What about Asians, Hispanic, Native Americans and transgenders? I would hire the best qualified person.
GoldenArrowhead
GoldenArrowhead 1
Then there's this: https://airlinegeeks.com/2021/04/11/opinion-united-s-pilot-recruitment-policy-is-fine-if-done-correctly/
phanleypri
Patrick Hanley 1
Looking at the Atlas crash mistakes makes this United announcement even more terrifying. It should be mandatory that prior to boarding, a video display containing the photos, training and flight experience be made available to all passengers. No penalty refunds should then be available. I can look at my health plan providers complete information prior to my doctor visit. Putting my life in the hands of a pilot who may be in control due to sex or skin color is not acceptable. Hopefully United will pay a steep price for this policy and it will be rejected by all other competent airlines.
Mike101361
Lloyd Sharp 1
Some people you just can't tell them the sky is blue. One more indication that we are circling the drain.
Sad to hear United come out and say that they want more people of a certain color or gender, rather then the best candidates.
Good Luck United--
Looks like I'll be taking Amtrak
williamableman
William Ableman 1
That's what some airlines did in the 80s. They hired extremely low-time young pilots, some with only 100 hours, just because of the color of their skin and gender. Yes, and then they trained them. But I knew a couple CFIs that were excellent pilots that had a difficult time, they both had their ATP License, one got hired and the other settled for charter work.

Back then, I thought that the airlines only hired the best -- with the time, experience and required licenses and ratings -- regardless of what they were at birth. I guess I was wrong.
Edyrp1
Edy Rudnick Pineless 1
Seriously? Not the most qualified pilots? I will choose another airline with its head on straight.
GoldenArrowhead
GoldenArrowhead 1
Wow! Where do I start?
The article points out that United Airlines will train 5,000 pilots THIS DECADE with no flying experience and half will be women and people of color. It did not say United Airlines will hire all of them. That means they have to successfully complete the training prior to being offered employment. So how is this racist and reverse discrimination? The story also points out that United will continue to draw pilots from the military which may more likely to be white males.
Someone pointed out air traffic control hiring from the Obama era but applying to become a controller is not like applying to work at Target or Walmart. Even if you believe ATC jobs were offered to unqualified people, the applicant would have to go through the FAA Academy and could washout regardless of their race or gender. Even if they clear that hurdle, they still could wash out at their initial facility regardless of their race or gender.
Finally, one of the barriers to pursuing a pilot career is the cost of flight training. If that is your barrier and someone can remove that barrier from you, do you take it? If you take advantage of that offer, does that automatically make you unqualified or less than qualified? Airlines have partnerships with several universities to offer a direct pipeline for jobs. Some of those are minority serving institutions with students who do not classify as minorities. Should those students not have the same opportunities as students from “majority” serving institutions?
rickascott
rick SCOTT 1
They have been doing this for decades! A flight instructor friend of mine back in the late 80s was turned down by United Airlines. Then the equal employment opportunity commission sent her a letter and asked her to verify why she was rejected by United airlines. A few months later she received a check for $18,000 from United airlines. The payment was forced by the EEOC. Just for the record, she had 5000 hours of 172 time and about 35 hours in a 310.
Blmorgan
Bryan Morgan 1
United tried this 30 years ago and it was a disaster, cannot wait until the first lawsuit is foiled from a woman or a black that United let them go because they couldn’t pass the sim check or the ground school. You know it had to be discrimiaton and never be poor ability..
brucebowe
Bruce Bowe 0
I've been flying UA since my 20s. Most of it in those days for work. I'm 82 now and still travelling, but only for fun. No more on UA, I'm afraid. My dad, a very senior AA Capt, would roll over in his grave. Def. not a racist, but he always thought being able to land the machine was prime importance.
umpetcetc
David Turner -4
I’m pretty depressed at this comment section. I think it’s reductive and fallacious to reason that this corporate goal will result in unqualified people flying planes. Casting a wide net could have the opposite result, actually. This should be studied so that we can draw conclusions from data, not emotions. I’m a white dude. And when things don’t go my way, the conclusion I draw is that I didn’t work hard enough or wasn’t talented enough to compete in the marketplace.
firediver86
firediver86 3
You are so full of shit. The only thing people on this post are saying is that when you use skin color as any basis for hiring, no matter what color it is, it is still racist. Imagine the criteria being different, to purposely hire whites over blacks, simply because of skin color.
umpetcetc
David Turner -1
Talent crops up everywhere. Everything from money to geography to, yes, the color of your skin can affect your ability to get seen by those in power and to get the basic education you need to cultivate a first-rate mind. I do t see this as judging anyone by the color of their skin, I see it as a talent search.
SkyAware123
SkyAware123 -1
you're so full of it.... IF they were qualified before, why wouldn't they already be pilots now ? Discrimination/sexism you say ? I say bullshit.
umpetcetc
David Turner 3
Maybe they’re not already pilots because they’re at the beginning of their careers. I wish them and all of my fellow pilots well.
narayan
narayan -7
Ridiculous comments from bigots who can't stand to see non-whites succeed. I have seen dumb white pilots and smart minorities. There's a higher likelihood that these minorities have tried harder and are better educated (and with better STEM skills than the average population). As long as they meet the SAME standards as everyone and there's no compromise on that, I see absolutely no problem with this approach. First clean up the nepotism and corruption in the FAA and the airlines and make it an equal playing field, everyone will be better off for it.
gomedoc
Jon Schwartz 7
unfortunately, reality is different than your university argument...affirmative actions hurts all ESPECIALLY minorities....look at the data not what Marxist professors spew....Do people who advocate special programs for blacks realize that the government has had special programs for American Indians, including affirmative action, since the early 19th century-and that American Indians remain one of the few groups worse off than blacks? Thomas Sowell
DRotten
D Rotten 5
'Affirmative Action' is THEE very definition of being a racist/sexist. What someone is saying is, "You're too stupid/too lazy/not talented enough to acquire the skills NEEDED for this position, so, we'll move you to the front of the line."! As a FEMALE, I am extremely OFFENDED by 'Affirmative Action'!! I would NEVER WANT, or TAKE a job 'just because' I am female!!! It's INSULTING!!!! My last job, I was promoted and got pay raises because I (literally) OUT-WORKED the guys!! I DESERVED it; it was NOT HANDED to me! One gets PRIDE from WORKING FOR something.....NOT being so pathetic as to being HANDED something!!
narayan
narayan 0
I suggest you read the article again. Did United say they are going to pick morons off the street and put them in the left seat?
SkyAware123
SkyAware123 7
No, it said they're picking color over qualifications. Your numbnut brainwashed low iq brain can't get it. go woke go broke.
narayan
narayan -4
Where did they say that? You must have "earned" your degree from Trump university to make up balderdash like that. And you know, 90% of those commenting here believe it.
gilgraham
gil graham 4
You couldn't be more wrong. Right now, when I see a minority in the cockpit, I feel good, very good, knowing they most likely earned their way and are probably superior performers. No longer will that be the case. Being placed somewhere based on skin melanin content or biological plumbing is not my definition "succeeding".
narayan
narayan 0
So you think United, putting these new aspiring pilots through their training program will let unqualified pilots fly their planes? The fact they are emphasizing this approach doesn't negate safety implications *IF* they meet the program requirements.
gilgraham
gil graham 3
narayan - fair point - will they be "unqualified"? The answer is not absolutely, but likely. I believe they will certainly "pass" the tests, but as a pilot who's been through a lot of training, I wonder how many tries they'll get when attempting to pass tests and checkrides. Hiring and promoting based on anything other than performance will lead to below average results, and the better performers will not get hired. Is that fair or promoting "equality"?
GoldenArrowhead
GoldenArrowhead 2
Hey narayan, seems like the people up in arms skipped this paragraph:

"United will borrow an approach used elsewhere, notably at Germany’s Lufthansa, by taking people at the beginning of their flying careers and training them at its own academy, which it bought last year. United will continue to draw pilots from traditional sources such as the military, however".
GoldenArrowhead
GoldenArrowhead 1
If the flight students get through United's flight academy, the have an opportunity to be hired. If not, they don't have that opportunity. How is that any different from someone coming from the military, another airline or a flight school?
firediver86
firediver86 4
Giving preference for skin color, even if the qualifications are equal is still defined as racism, or are you too ignorant to see that?
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 1
Okay... let's apply your preference for advancement by putting safety and performance on the back burner...


As I said in another post, if this stupidity had been applied in the nineties Colgan 3407 would have happened ten years sooner. It was bad then given the lax standards on professionalism and performance. This will only make it worse.

One person responded with that being blame on a pilot. So, let's look at how the lax comprehension of the importance of performance has affected the lives of many. Renslow failed too many times. He argued Renslow ultimately passed his checkride so it doesn't matter. He argued fatigue.


Yes, it does matter. This is not a profession where constant "do-overs" should be the standard. Not now, not ever. I'm not laying the entire blame on the pilot. I'm laying it at the hands of those who refused to act when it was clear the required performance at that level was simply not there.

The issues surrounding this accident is the reason several changes took place. Among them, the right of any employer to not only obtain the FAA records of all employment and training performance, but they are mandated to do so by USC.

He failed THREE PRACTICAL TESTS! And, his performance for a 1900 type rating was less than acceptable if you read the paragraph.

"The captain had received several disapprovals and had experienced training problems throughout his flying career.257 In October 1991, the captain was disapproved for his initial instrument airplane rating. The tasks disapproved were partial panel VOR approach, NDB approach, and holding."

To be fair, I'm adding:
"All pilots must pass a checkride before a certificate or rating can be issued. Checkride failures are not uncommon and are not necessarily an indication of incompetence. Because the captain’s initial instrument rating disapproval happened more than 17 years before the accident, when he had only 125 hours total flight time, this failure was not especially significant. He successfully completed the checkride 3.5 weeks later"

At 296 hours total time:
"In May 2002, the captain was disapproved for his initial commercial single-engine land certificate. The tasks disapproved were takeoffs, landings, go-arounds, and performance maneuvers."

"In March 2004, the captain was disapproved for his initial commercial multiengine land airplane certificate. The entire checkride needed to be repeated because the captain did not perform enough maneuvers properly to get credit for them on a subsequent checkride."

Training for BE1900 type rating:
"The captain attended Gulfstream Training Academy from August 2004 to April 2005 and completed initial training at GIA (which was directly associated with the academy) in December 2004. Details from his training records, however, revealed his continuing difficulties with aircraft control. During two simulator periods, he was graded unsatisfactory in 'approach to stall– landing configuration.' During a later simulator period, he demonstrated unacceptable altitude and airspeed control. During the final planned simulator session, the instructor noted basic attitude flying problems and repeated deviations. Because additional training was required, an extra simulator session occurred the next day. All maneuvers were graded satisfactory at that time. The simulator checkride occurred the same day as the additional training.

"The captain’s GIA training records clearly showed that his flying skills needed improvement, but he had apparently met the minimum standards required for completion of the training. Thus, he began flying the BE-1900D as a fully qualified first officer. However, the captain’s GIA training records should have raised concerns about his suitability for employment at a Part 121 air carrier."

Yes, crew fatigue was an issue. The board found:
"The pilots’ performance was likely impaired because of fatigue, but the extent of their impairment and the degree to which it contributed to the performance deficiencies that occurred during the flight cannot be conclusively determined."

That said, less than mediocre performance possibly on top of fatigue makes it that much worse.

His issues with stall recognition and recovery during training most certainly proved to be an issue in the accident event.

"The accident captain’s history of training failures (previously discussed in section 1.5.1.2 and analyzed in section 2.7) showed that he had demonstrated weaknesses throughout his career with instrument flying skills and had relied heavily on the autopilot to help him stabilize the airplane, which might have contributed to his deficient performance during the accident flight. However, research has shown that it could be difficult for pilots to recognize and recover from unusual attitudes that were unexpected. In addition, the night and poor visibility conditions at the time precluded the use of external visual cues for reliable attitude reference, and the airplane’s G loads and proximity to the ground would have increased the stress associated with the event. The NTSB concludes that the captain’s response to stick shaker activation should have been automatic, but his improper flight control inputs were inconsistent with his training and were instead consistent with startle and confusion. The NTSB further concludes that the captain did not recognize the stick pusher’s action to decrease AOA as a proper step in a stall recovery, and his improper flight control inputs to override the stick pusher exacerbated the situation."

Now, you think it's a great idea to make color and/or sex a major deciding factor in choosing candidates and put skill and performance on the back burner? That is EXACTLY what is happening when UAL pushes this crap.

What do you know about Marlon Green?

Green had a distinguished career in the Air Force. He left the service and submitted his application to Continental Airlines. He left his picture off the application and did not specify his race. He was called to interview but then dismissed because he was black.

He sued and won his proper right to be reviewed based on the merits of his professional accomplishments.

He didn't want his color to be a deciding factor for not being interviewed and it wasn't to that point. Do you think he'd accept getting the job only because he's black? I very seriously doubt that.

Then again, he grew up during a time when integrity mattered.
glriggs44
gary riggs 0
Or will this one be bad for you?
eesteve
Edward V Esteve 0
Ass H.... ! People of color have brains ! Problem is you read the word(s) people of color and your racist brains go berserk !
ElliotCannon
Elliot Cannon 0
They did the same sort of thing in 1965. Anyone remember back that far? I seem to recall requirements of a high school education and at least 250 flying hours back then. JAL and Lufthansa may still be training with 0 flying experience. The US Air Force and Navy have been doing it for years.

Вход

Нет учетной записи? Зарегистрируйтесь сейчас (бесплатно) и получите доступ к конфигурируемым функциям, уведомлениям о статусе рейсов и другим возможностям!
Этот веб-сайт использует файлы cookie. Если вы будете просматривать или пользоваться этим сайтом, вы даете на это свое согласие.
Отменить
Вы знаете, что реклама помогает FlightAware в отслеживании рейсов?
Вы можете внести свой вклад в бесплатную работу FlightAware, разрешив показ рекламы на FlightAware.com. Мы следим за тем, чтобы наша реклама была полезна и не мешала работе с сайтом. Вы можете быстро включить рекламу на FlightAware или приобрести привилегированное членство.
Отменить