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Two Croatian Canadair aircraft putting out fires in Israel
Two Croatian Canadair aircraft continued on Saturday to put out widespread forest fires in Israel which threaten houses and, despite difficulties in taking water from the Mediterranean Sea, flew until dusk on Friday. (eblnews.com) Ещё...
When your small country's burning up, you'll do whatever it takes to save it....and the Israelis' are pretty good @ doing what ever it takes.
20,000 poinds of water every hour and 1600 pounds per drop via CL-415 every 15 minutes makes a good case for using both at the same fire.
Sorry, meant 20,000 us gal and 1600 us gal for each plane?
[This poster has been suspended.]
You might take a look at the figures here, albeit somewhat dated:
http://fireaviation.com/tag/very-large-air-tanker/
One source listed the Evergreen 747 charges of $75K/ day + $12K/hr & DC 10 at $27.8K +$13K/hr. I recall ANG estimates on C-130 MAFFS about $10K/hr.
This 2012 doc:
www.nifc.gov/PIO_bb/Background/2012FFAircraftFactSheet.docx
listed CL-215 billable costs at $9.1K + $7.5K/hr
Then this website has some cl-215's for sale
http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?make=CANADAIR&model=CL-215&s-type=aircraft
Do some research, run the numbers, but remember that Google only knows of 10-20% of the data on the web.
Good hunting.
http://fireaviation.com/tag/very-large-air-tanker/
One source listed the Evergreen 747 charges of $75K/ day + $12K/hr & DC 10 at $27.8K +$13K/hr. I recall ANG estimates on C-130 MAFFS about $10K/hr.
This 2012 doc:
www.nifc.gov/PIO_bb/Background/2012FFAircraftFactSheet.docx
listed CL-215 billable costs at $9.1K + $7.5K/hr
Then this website has some cl-215's for sale
http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?make=CANADAIR&model=CL-215&s-type=aircraft
Do some research, run the numbers, but remember that Google only knows of 10-20% of the data on the web.
Good hunting.
[This poster has been suspended.]
The best time to stop a wildland fire is when it covers 1 sq ft.
You don't sound like a Canadair sales rep; were that true, you would have the answers to your questions at the tip of your tongue.
The amphib is just one more tool in the locker, along with the SEATs, big gun tankers, dozers, engines, tankers, shovels, pulaskis & McClouds and of course a whopping lot of dedicated people.
You don't sound like a Canadair sales rep; were that true, you would have the answers to your questions at the tip of your tongue.
The amphib is just one more tool in the locker, along with the SEATs, big gun tankers, dozers, engines, tankers, shovels, pulaskis & McClouds and of course a whopping lot of dedicated people.
Thank you Joel, and well put!
To expand on Joel's comments about the right tool in the she,in the USA, large air tankers and "Helitankers" (S-64s, etc..)are "National Resources" and can be snatched away from your fire if a bigger priority pops up so you sometimes take what you can get.Assuming you can get what ever you want, tactical priorities will drive your resource requests.
1. Super Scoopers drop water, Very Large Air Tankers (VLAT = MD11, 747) down to Single Engine Air Tankers (SEAT) drop retardant.
Water is for direct attack, an offensive maneuver requiring ground resources to act relatively soon after the drop or it evaporates.Water is dropped on the fireline
Retardant is a time providing maneuver to sloww the spread until ground pounders can arrive and construct a fireline. Retardant can be applied hours before the fire gets there.
2.Super Scoopers require an arrival and departure path to execute their assignment. Helicopters can arrive over their target from just about any direction and depart through the same slice of airspace. So if they have to work in the same area of the fire coordination is complicated.
3. In Southern CCalifornia, down canyon winds often drive the worst fires. Super Scoopers drop into the wind which means dropping towards rising terrain. The result is a higher drop and less effective water delivery as the wind breaks up and redirects the water. Helicopters can arrive into the wind, execute a 180, drop the load, and depart downhill.
It is great that we have so many tools available but choosing the tool is the job of the Fire Management Team.
1. Super Scoopers drop water, Very Large Air Tankers (VLAT = MD11, 747) down to Single Engine Air Tankers (SEAT) drop retardant.
Water is for direct attack, an offensive maneuver requiring ground resources to act relatively soon after the drop or it evaporates.Water is dropped on the fireline
Retardant is a time providing maneuver to sloww the spread until ground pounders can arrive and construct a fireline. Retardant can be applied hours before the fire gets there.
2.Super Scoopers require an arrival and departure path to execute their assignment. Helicopters can arrive over their target from just about any direction and depart through the same slice of airspace. So if they have to work in the same area of the fire coordination is complicated.
3. In Southern CCalifornia, down canyon winds often drive the worst fires. Super Scoopers drop into the wind which means dropping towards rising terrain. The result is a higher drop and less effective water delivery as the wind breaks up and redirects the water. Helicopters can arrive into the wind, execute a 180, drop the load, and depart downhill.
It is great that we have so many tools available but choosing the tool is the job of the Fire Management Team.
Amen Joel...remember that from the Fort Mac fires
[This poster has been suspended.]
For a Wiki entry it's quite informative on tanker types & capabilities. If you scroll down to the tactics and capabilities portion there is this....
Some firefighting aircraft can refill their tanks in mid-flight, by flying down to skim the surface of large bodies of water. One example is the Bombardier CL-415. This is particularly useful in rural areas where flying back to an airbase for refills may take too much time. In 2002 an Ontario CL-415 crew was able to refill 100 times within a 4-hour mission, delivering an astounding 162,000 US gallons (613,240 l) or 1,350,000 pounds (612 t) of water on a fire near Dryden Ontario.[citation needed] { June 1, 2002 Dryden fire # 10 Tanker #271 civil ident C-GOGE }
I flew this type for 12 seasons. I can tell you this is unusual but is common enough around the world. This represent the maximum performance under ideal circumstances with an adjacent water source. This works out to a drop every 2 minutes. Ferry time to and from the fire was 20 min each way a total of 200 minutes were spent in fire mode.