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ATP Tests Grind to a Halt ??

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Based on data sources, since August 1, 2014, we have not administered a single ATP knowledge test that would allow a pilot to then go on to take the ATP multi-engine practical test and become ATP qualified for service in an airline. Yup. None. For two whole months and I expect this trend to continue for a third month. (www.avweb.com) Ещё...

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preacher1
preacher1 3
To boot, the age 65 rule was not raised this year and that will just take that many more out of the marketplace. No, it is not anything near like it was. It is still way above average if you can claw your way in there but it is a hard fight and as one said, it is more personal connection than a rigid promotion type schedule. There is no easy answer but it will bite the traveling public and the airlines square in the butt one of these days.
WtfWtf
WtfWtf 2
I hope it bites the execs and management right into the unemployment line.. Or better yet, the welfare line like the ones pilots need to use.
DSchultz101
Dustin Schultz 1
Have you heard that they are raising the age for retirement?
bentwing60
bentwing60 2
I suspect the age 65 rule will remain static for a while. It only took 30 years to change.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Not on the wire right now and very late in the year to do it. Retirements are already planned and doubtful would be reversed.
WtfWtf
WtfWtf 5
No one should get one. This cost should go to the airlines. A college degree, the rest of the flight training costs, and the first 5 years under 30k a year are a terrible deal as it is.
DSchultz101
Dustin Schultz 2
How is this surprising at all??? I am one of the pilots that took my ATP written exam by the deadline in July. At my testing center in Charlotte, NC, there were 15 people taking the exam that day. Normally, they just have one or two people signed up for any one of the FAA exams. Anyone that is thinking of getting their ATP in the next year, much less two years, would have signed up for the test. I highly doubt someone with over 1000 hours that planned on getting their ATP soon would have missed this test. It will be hard to meet the requirements once all the new legislation is enacted. Regional airlines will have to cover the costs of the sim time. However, this will probably make the regionals force pilots to sign employment agreements for the use of the sim. At the end of the day, this has created another barrier for pilots to enter the profession. But it has also created more job security for all that currently have their ATP.
cblair0608
cblair0608 2
The government isn't only targeting aviation. My primary business is trucking, I own a fairly small trucking company and we transport produce out of California back to the East Coast. In years past it was VERY easy to find drivers/employees. We would advertise a position and receive no less than 50 to 80 phone calls in one week. In the past 12 weeks we have spent over 2,000.00 in advertising and received a total of 6 phone calls.....here's why. The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration has implemented new reg's. Now, on your physical if you have high blood pressure you must obtain a stress test from a cardiologist at YOUR expense. Even if you have medical insurance your insurance isn't going to pay for it cause you are not suffering from a medical ailment. Secondly, if you are very overweight you must obtain a sleep apnea study, again at your own expense. Third, you can't be on ANY KIND of pain med's. Many drivers have surrendered their CDL's and in the next couple years prices of products across the country will skyrocket. Right now 20% of our fleet is sitting still due to no drivers. I honestly don't know what's going to happen to this country. Some have said that large airline companies would start transporting the freight but after reading this article about the pilots then its not possible. AMAZING!!
upchucked
C. WESLEY GRADY 1
Prior to my retirement, I was the attorney for a large State Trooper Union. Wages, while good, were not great. Then one day about 20 years ago, the training classes started to dwindle and after 4 consecutive classes below the "Needed" level, it became obvious that there was going to be a shortage in the number of graduates and taking into account normal and early retirement due to illness and injury both on and off the job, there was going to be a growing shortage of qualified State Troopers. The command structure responded by adding incentives to those reaching their normal retirement to remain on the job for another year, or two or five. Problem was, that the ones they were keeping were at the top end and the road patrols continued to suffer. The next time we went into wage negotiations, we demanded and got a 30% increase in starting pay and a 30% increase in the first six steps, which cover the first 5 years. That increase was immediately seen in the number of applicants, number of graduates and the number of Troopers on road patrol, while still keeping the command structure intact. Starting salary for a State Trooper rose to $35,000 with a 5% increase upon graduation, with moving expenses if assigned to a different part of the state, and a further bump to $40,000 when the probation year was completed. Add in overtime pay for court appearances and soon the average state trooper was over $65,000 a year with many close to $100,000.

When the pilots' union begins to realize that there are not drone planes in the coming years, they will begin to realize that they are going to have to pay the guys and gals with the best view what they are worth, and that includes Regional airlines as well. The airlines won't suffer, they will bump up the cost of a ticket $3 and have more than enough money to pay the pilots.
MultiComm
MultiComm 1
The unions are well aware of the pay problem ... it is not their decision to make ... even while represented by the union the companies have a major role in the pay.
WtfWtf
WtfWtf 1
It's the major / regional structure problem. Regionals are bottom feeders and the bid goes to the lowest bidder.. They need to get rid of regional airlines all together.. They are crap.
preacher1
preacher1 1
The majors are going to have to take them back in house and provide some kind of work contract to help with tuition and time, plus a patch to the majors if desired.
WtfWtf
WtfWtf 1
It's simply not reasonable to pay 150k for school only to make 20k.. Hell I wouldn't do that much school unless the pay STARTED at 75k on the other end.. and even THAT isn't enough historically.. Before (at little as 15 years ago), you were making a mistake if you borrowed more than your expected first year salary for school. Try doing that in any field these days.. It's a joke.
preacher1
preacher1 1
They haven't yet but over the next few years guys and gals will start figuring this out and then you will see the real shortage. If the 1500 hour rule had not jumped in there, they could have probably gotten by with it as is, since it was rocking along and some lower time guys were taking some right seats and a pool being formed, but that 1500 hr rule really tightened things up.
MultiComm
MultiComm 1
I agree the competition is a huge problem but since I currently work for a regional (a big one) I would only want the regionals to disappear if the majors bought them and their pilot group with them...of course this should be based on performance data and of course the amount of pilots, etc. to fulfill the demand among other things.

Some regionals would be left to dry up but hopefully the large ones (Skywest, ExpressJet, etc.) would be able to survive (even if purchased as a subsidiary of the majors.
preacher1
preacher1 1
I'm just glad I'm retired and you boys have all this to deal with. If they ever asked my opinion, I have stated it below, so we apparently are on the same page.
preacher1
preacher1 1
It is sad that it has to come to that but it probably will. There is not much foresight in anything today. It seems to be all about what is happening right now, and maybe I can move on up and let somebody else handle it.
bentwing60
bentwing60 1
Guys, I've been preaching to the choir here for a while and the fact is that the industry has drawn on the military, the glamour, and the macho forever and now that they have lessened the value of a new hire to that of a McJob, just as the twits in congress say it ain't so will have consequences. I suspect that the first true pilot shortage in this country is just getting started. I have been hearing that for years and it will arrive on my retirement date. More Karma. Cheers!
preacher1
preacher1 1
Yep, we have paid our dues. Time to just sit back and watch now. I think those 135 and 90/91 jobs will start to look a whole lot better.
preacher1
preacher1 2
After the private use flap a few years ago, there are some corporate jobs out there where the boss likes being home on the weekend too. In addition, a lot of them are paying way more than a 121 gig.

[This poster has been suspended.]

preacher1
preacher1 1
That is a well and good thought but the way it is right now, I guess if the airlines let them, you could have a 1500 hour wonder in the left seat of a 777 with his equal in the right. Dumb and dumber, looking for a place to crash.
MultiComm
MultiComm 1
The airline I fly for only limits total time in type as far as low experience. For example...they will not pair two pilots together if they both have less than 100 hours in type. That applies for everyone ... even if you have 5,000 hours in a 747 and have a career change that requires you to fly a CRJ ... less than 100 hours as a FO or CA will not be paired together if both have less than 100 hours in type.
preacher1
preacher1 1
That's all well and good, but if this shortage materializes, what you gonna do when you got a whole roster of 100 hours in type and no senior men. That's where this is gonna boil down to.
MultiComm
MultiComm 1
I will take a long time for that to materialize ... that would be over 3000 pilots (my company alone) all with less than 100 hours ... there are always going to be those that don't want the majors and make a career out of the regional s (if they survive).
preacher1
preacher1 1
Just sayin' that is the end result and your last line (if they survive) lends some credence to that. LOL

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